old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

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old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Bfg » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:37 pm

.
Just a quick hello. I've never done detecting before so I have the whole academy yet to learn. :) I guess I might be described as romantically intrigued by the who and when a person or persons passed by and sat down in this or that spot, as well as the little tidbits of social history of a place. And I hope this is a hobby which will bring with it many a pleasant hidden surprises, for many years to come.

I haven't yet got a machine but decided the x-terra 705 with two extra coils and a pointer, recently offered by rickyp123 in the buy & sell section of this website, was probably the best I could get ..for the limited budget I have. So I've sent him a deposit and am looking forward to being able to collect it and give metal detecting a first try.

I know that might sorta sound like a rich person buying into a whim ..but I'm not the former and I've done absolutely nothing spontaneous nor very much sociable for almost the whole of last year (I'm actually feeling a little burnt out) and so gave in to my being frugal all the time ..and bought myself a belated 'surprise' Christmas present. I'd like to start off 2018 with a step through the wardrobe.

I presently live in Suffolk nr.Ipswich and was forced into early retirement ..so am now preparing an old boat to live aboard. B-) Accordingly, I specifically wanted a machine that would perform reasonably well along saltwater beaches & estuaries, as well as through woodland & countryside paths.

I opted not to go for an absolute economy machine ..because I want to give the sport (?) a fair chance. And I hope to have chosen equipment which after three months I wouldn't find myself looking to sell in order to fund a better quality or spec'd machine. The Minelab seems to have a reputation for decent quality and able performance ..albeit as a lower-end mid-range product. It also appears sensibly easy enough to use and yet not inflexible in its customised settings. I'm sure I'll enjoy learning to tune it, as well as my own planning & technique, for satisfying results. I'm actually quietly excited and ready to give it a go.

I've spent an enjoyable day off today - reading pages of this website, watching You-tube videos, and half reading Randy Horton's guide on 'understanding your x-terra'.

Cheers.. to all who have shared their experiences and links ::g

Bfg.
Last edited by Bfg on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by chip » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:15 pm

Hi bfg, welcome to the forum. I don’t know anything about the machine you are getting but being minelab I am sure it will live up to your expectations.

Happy hunting.

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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Oxgirl36 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:25 pm

Great introduction and very sensible thinking. I started with a EuroAce and upgraded 5 months later. Not really the most sensible or economic approach :E

Good luck with your boat renovations and the new hobby. You’ll be trying out all types terrains so your experiences with your x-terra will be very interesting for many.
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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Easylife » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:40 pm

Hi Bfg, You have clearly done some indepth research and I agree with your thoughts. Many sites can yield a lot of social history in their finds. By having a detector aboard you can take advantage of situations on your travels, which sounds ideal. ::g
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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Bargeman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:43 pm

Hello and welcome, I live on an 1902 Dutch sailing barge, hence my user name ::g I hope detecting brings you the things you are looking for, for me it brings friendship, social interaction, tranquility, and the occasional find.

Have fun, and happy hunting.

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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by sweepstick47 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:01 am

Hello 'Bfg' ::g Welcome aboard the forum. Your choice of machine is certainly appropriate for the requirement of inland and waterside detecting, I know it to be a capable and reliable machine.

Reading up on this forum plus scanning 'tube' video's is a great way to get to grips with the basics prior to having 'hands on'. It also goes some way towards filling time until the machine arrives!

I expect you're aware of the advantages of having FID/NCMD membership (which is a requirement in the event of attending the odd organised rally) - always a good source for meeting like-minded people, obtaining tips/answers to burning questions on specific detectors etc.

Here's wishing you good luck with the boat, your 'new' detector and on your metal detecting journey. ::g Regards ss47
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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Bfg » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:27 pm

.
Thank you all for a lovely welcome, kind words and reassurances. I have so many questions buzzing around in my head that I'm sure I'll be coming back pretty often. I will try to search the forum before asking, but I apologise in advance for occasionally asking the same ol' question that a thousand have asked before. rl;

I had not heard of FID., but found the NCMD late last night x; ..and then n' there thought I'd gamble £10 in joining. I was looking for a permission form which carried or at least implied some sort of recognised authority. Not many minutes previously I read a topic about permission being lost on a 1000 acre property, because opportunists did not respect the landowner and trespassed his land. I felt that making a little effort - to be seen to be law abiding, responsible and considerate - might often be necessary ..for the benefit of md's everywhere. Being seen to follow a code of conduct, and having public liability insurance through a national organisation, was my first proactive step in doing that.

It strikes me that we are each in a pretty unique place in the time line, where a lay-person like me has both the leisure time and can afford the electronic equipment to be able to make such fascinating historic finds ..within just minutes of their own home (or boat) ! Our fathers didn't (sorry to the lady detectorist, no chauvinist intent meant) and tbh our children's children will not (..the country will have been swept over already). OK., so 'we' may need to work a little harder on the reputation of md's, which will in turn help obtain the freedom to search on private, council or Crown properties ..but surely it is worth it for the privilege ! ? [:)

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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by JBM » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:32 pm

Hi BFG,

A good machine to get you off the ground.

The man behind the X-Terra`s is a true master, "Des Dunne" from the Emerald Isle.

If you go to you tube you will see a number of videos from that era on that particular range.

One even has a one to one interview with him

The 705 is the best one of the range to acquire. ::g

Happy Hunting,

Jerry.

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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by tigerseeker » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:50 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:25 pm
Great introduction and very sensible thinking. I started with a EuroAce and upgraded 5 months later. Not really the most sensible or economic approach :E

Good luck with your boat renovations and the new hobby. You’ll be trying out all types terrains so your experiences with your x-terra will be very interesting for many.
Hi, just out of interest why did you upgrade after 5 months? My first machine was (and still is) a Euroace and as I have stated many times I love it.... However it seems to me that the Deus (is it 'deuce' or 'day-us' ?? is another level entirely. Must admit I'm becoming a little tempted.... =P~
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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Oxgirl36 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:14 pm

This should explain it. I bought my EuroAce at the end of May and bought the Deus at the end November. The EuroAce is a great machine but there is no way I could go back now X(

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=89859&hilit=First+thoughts
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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Garry Corbett » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:58 pm

Hi bfg welcome to the forum. I havent been on myself for ages but the people on here are great and will always give you sound advice, I started off with the ace 250 and i now use the XP deus but you still have to walk over it to find it lol happy hunting cheers Gaz

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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Garry Corbett » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:01 pm

Hi bfg also get yourself into a local club you will meet loads of great like minded people and be able to get out on land until you get your own permissions, cheers gaz

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Re: old n' crusty giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Bfg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:41 pm

.
Hello again,

I'm still patiently but eagerly waiting to get the x-terra but the seller - rickyp was off to hospital last Wednesday or Thursday and so things have been delayed. I sincerely wish him a 'get better soon matey', and in the meantime I've had the opportunity to do a lot of reading and in general - trying to find my way around. :D

This is a truly wonderful website and I'd like to say a big thanks to Mrix and the moderators for their tireless devotion to support newbies and experienced detectorist alike via this free resource. I have leant that the modest % from the 'buy & sell' contribute a little towards the website's costs but I suspect that those who run it aren't going to be in a position to retire to some exotic tax exile resort any time soon ! Naturally, I'd urge anyone here to use the 'buy & sell' for any unused gear to help support this website and to help us newbies on a tight budget. Thanks ::g

I did use the word 'trying' ..to find my way around. And I guess that is a fact of life on any website which has matured and evolved together with the experience of its members. So, for any newbie reading this I'd like to add to the glossary (which is found under the ' Main : General ' title, the following :

" The facilities available for recording finds made in the UK are probably the best in the world. The UK Detector Finds Database (UKDFD) offers detectorists a hobby-based self-recording scheme, and the government-sponsored Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) provides recording via a network of Finds Liaison Officers. In addition, the Celtic Coin Index (CCI) and the Early Medieval Corpus (EMC) provide facilities for the recording of coins from these two periods. All these databases are online and freely accessible to the public, and the content of all of them owes a great deal to the metal-detecting hobby."
Source : < http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17028 > Btw., that link is well worth following & reading. B-)

Likewise another particularly good'n for the newbie ..under the encrypted heading of 'An ID is just one little bit of the picture' is viewtopic.php?f=120&t=78970, which talks of who to report finds to so that their history adds to the overall archilogical database. Btw., it uses the acronym FLO which refers to : a Finds Liaison Officer.

Another for your glossary is :
HAMMY code " please consider the HAMMY code below if you also wish to have a good ID. This top class free service is provided by other MDF forum members and they need as much INFORMATION as possible. Many of us struggle with the technical side of taking pictures & loading them onto a post, so here is just one of the excellent help topic that should make life easier! viewtopic.php?f=120&t=32047

H - Have at least two good sized clear photos.
A - Add any info about your detecting day, type of land, depth found etc
M - Measure items by doing the pics next to a scale or ruler.
M - Machine used ? settings ? always of interest to other users.
Y - You will always get a better ID if you supply more information. "
..which is from : IMPORTANT NEW Members - HAMMY CODE

Further to this ..well worth reading is : IMPORTANT - Please read before asking for an ID.

Otherwise, much is said about permissions and I've yet to get into this personally, but it seems that many private land owners, home / garden owners, and farmers are most reluctant to allow strangers to wander around their property. That is quite reasonable considering the nature of many unscrupulous (non metal detectorist) persons who steal anything that might be loose or not.! Personally I'm equally suspicious of strangers wandering around where I live.

And if a farmer were to let one person to detect then other opportunistic treasure hunters might see them and think the place is a free for all. In most instances it's far easier for the land owner to say NO ..that would be trespassing, than to seemingly open the flood gates to anyone.

Metal detectorists also have a bad rap, much of which is undeserved but perhaps not all. I wonder how many do not go back to the landowner and share a true 50% of what they find on that land. If for example he or she searches and searches ..and eventually finds a single beautiful hammered (pre-industrialised mint) coin ..does he/she give it to the landowner with gratitude, or does it quietly slip like 'my precious' into the finds pouch ? ie., "what the landowner never knows about, they'll not miss."

I was reading a British Museum blog yesterday about a huge coin horde find, the second largest if I recall, which was correctly handled by not disturbing the site but by very carefully reburying it before reporting in accordance with the Treasury Act. British Museum archeologists then carefully dug the site and not only retrieved 'the horde' - to clean and preserve the find (which was besides an underground water course), but also discovered new things about Britain's history.

They also handled the sale of the find, through raised money so that it went to the county museum. The resultant £300+ thousand was shared 50-50% between the landowner and the detectorist who discovered the find. So, 'they each got' something like £175k ..very nice thank you very much. But.. if that was the second largest find of tens of thousands of historic coins seven centuries old, and that wouldn't even buy a nice apartment in many places, then why are we (seemingly many a detectorist) so 'my precious' about a single coin ? Bottom line : you won't become a millionaire by metal detecting .

Another post I read recently was about a person loosing their permission. They quickly said " I have found 100+ Romans, big silver, etc." .... and ended up their post by saying "been kicked off by someone I have known most of my life. We have each attended marriages, funerals, etc of the other's families, parties, meetings etc etc." - but as a newbie I noted he doesn't make mention of what he gave of his finds to the landowner, nor how he took the time to share those with that family explaining their history, nor even encouraging their participation in this fantastic hobby. Who knows, he may have been very generous, but perhaps for the sake of setting a precedent to would-be ' treasure hunters ' he might have said so.

Perhaps as a newbie I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but I cannot help but suspect this is where detectorists and landowners fall out. After years of searching that land the permission is withdrawn and the detectorist is angry at the situation ..rather than grateful for those years and those finds, and the landowner is equally unhappy ..with all detectorist.

Moving on.. Good news for any newbie.. It is useful to know that since just last year - to search on many of the seaside / coastal and tidal estuaries, part of the Crown Estate, do not now need a 'Foreshore permit'. However, before you jump in the car full of enthusiasm it is worthwhile noting that many coastal and tidal river sites are restricted no go zones (nature reserves, places of historical &/or memorial reason, or still have ordnance / bombs, etc.), others are under the jurisdiction of local and town councils, &/or otherwise their access is blocked because of private property.

The Crown Estate map Foreshore & Esturaries Map gives (in purple) the places which may be searched, but it does not show which are essentially no go because of the local / restricted access. Furthermore, it should be noted that the beach is searchable only within its tidal range. It does not include the hard shore, even if that is a public park or car park, nor does it include the underwater seabed. And any finds are still subject to the Treasury Act.

Further permissions might be obtained from local councils, but they are renown for being obstructive, perhaps because past detectorists have been inconsiderate and damaging. A hole dug in the lawn of a public park is liable to get complaints from other users !. So again, for the sake of a quiet life and the freedom to search - the onus is on each of us to be considerate, generous with our finds and the history, and understanding of others.

To finish up here, you might want to become a member of the NCMD ( National Council for Metal Detecting ) which is really cheap and includes public liability insurance against damage to property. That and being seen to observe their code of conduct (also found on this website), along with a permissions form might make it easier when you approach landowners for permission.

Btw. if you approach a landowner looking like a vagabond who hasn't washed for a decade, or a 'traveler' then whether right or wrongly - it's not unreasonable to expect to be received like one. Likewise, if dressed like a commando, a thief in the night, or poacher. Think about it.

I hope other wiser and more experienced md's here will correct any errors I've made &/or otherwise add to this little 'newbie guide' to finding their way around

Thanks ::g
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Re: old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Twit » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:22 pm

The below is in reply to a question you posted on a better form of contract... not find the thread after writing up a reply :

To be fair and help present the whole picture I am going to start from the point of view of those that defend the landowner, and they are critical of that form of contract.

The difficult point is actually reaching an open understanding with the landowner, that contract presumes the detectorist automatically has claim to finds, and asks the landowner to acknowledge this.

Often it is just "understood" on a friendly basis, but written agreement is there to both remind and defend both sides. On another thread it was mentioned that simple email agreement was acceptable to that end.

That still does not resolve how an agreement is reached, and in reality that means asking something along the lines "how would you like anything WE (meaning the landowner also) find on your land shared" or suggesting " if items are found, usually declared treasure is shared... how are you about anything else found? "... it actually gives an opportunity to discuss with the landowner... and let him (or her but won't repeat it) be what he is, the current holder with who you are seeking an understanding - not someone you hope to walk away from with whatever you can salvage for yourself from his land.
At the least you should be showing him what you find and offering to him, or presenting items you think he might appreciate as gifts. If a landowner is selfless, be that way with him also, if he is more cunning then he will understand the talk of needing a contract. In other words it is a person's own responsibility to be fair.

If you are fair with the landowner then you have to aknowledge also that you are presenting him with a problem - what to do with finds. That resolves at a personal level, for which even a contract has little meaning, but which is the agreed resolution to the problem none the less.

So how do you go about this? I don't think there is a set answer...just common sense and respect. Personally I like trust, and people may feel insulted if you do not take them at their word, but that also means being trustworthy and open yourself... I cannot imagine many, if any, landowners scheme " let's get as many detectorists as possible here, if they find anything valuable we'll rip them off of what they found"... but as mentioned, the sight of treasure has an effect on people also.

So apart from the contract form, I think it would be meaningful to print out a short informative sheet explaining the above somehow, titled "Landowners and metal detecting" that addresses the relationship of the landowner and detectorist and allows the landowner to both consider and understand what is at play, and to make an informed choice. Where there is not a clear understanding reached without, I think any landowner would appreciate the effort to include them, and to have explained in an unbiased way how the theme is viewed from an outside ( be it legal, social, of responsibility) perspective.

We have to remember landowners are not necessarily very informed on the topic, they are as likely to go on hearsay, local experience, own goodwill, than any studied information, so it is the detectorists job to introduce them if necessary to the wider reality, and in a considerate way.

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Re: old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Bfg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:35 pm

.
^ I would agree with what I understand to be both points you make.

Firstly I had assumed (at least for myself) that I would broach the subject of metal detecting in conversation and to chat around it ..before discussing 'treasure and how to divvy that up'.

As I stated in my introduction - I'm personally much more interested in the people and social history of a place than any 'treasure'. And as I implied in the last post ; if the best I might hope to come away with is £175k - then statistically I'd be much better off cashing in the machine and buying lottery tickets with the money.

By coincidence I did speak to my neighbour today and said that I'm getting a metal detector, and asked if he would like me to see what the machine might find in his garden. I suggested that whatever that might be should be split between he and the landlord / owner of his rented home. I asked for nothing but the pleasure of helping find things. I also suggested that if I were to detect anything, then he might prefer to dig it up himself. My intent, which I hope came across, was to actively involve him in the hobby and to enjoy 'the discovery'.

As conversation went on I briefly spoke of the history of this region (East Anglia) and how the Romans were in Colchester (just 15 miles away) and after they left c. 410 AD how the Anglo-Saxons came across from Denmark, northern Germany, and Holland, and settled here after that. I also shared with him that a major battle was fought c. 991 at Maldon, Essex (again not far from here) against the Vikings - who won !

I've only lived here for 12 years, whereas he's been here for donkey's years and until a couple of years ago worked on this farm as their pig handler. And so I could talk with him about how the paths had changed immediately around our now semi-detached home, sometime over the past 80 years. When I see him next I'll show him a map of the house and footpaths that I downloaded today from 1827, and that'll open up the conversation further.

My hope is to detect in my own garden, and then with him to detect on his side of the fence, and then again with our old neighbours in their new house (built in the 1920's I believe). And to present these 'finds' to the landowner (the farmer). I plan to do this as an outright gift. And again I'll share ..with some enthusiasm, the history the artifacts we manage to ID, before asking if I might possibly search just one of the meadows. The family are farmers who own many acres, so if I play my cards right and come bearing gifts - then I might gain further permissions, even if just one field at a time.

This is because - I'm quite certain that if I went and knocked on their door, out of the blue (aside from the Port and Stilton I gave them at Christmas) thrusting a contract in their face - I'd be most firmly refused. It's worth considering that any owner of a farm, to have survived both economic competition from abroad and the dealing of supermarket chain buyers, may well speak with a funny accent ..but they sure are canny business folk ! Do something in their favour and they will listen and be welcoming. Upset them once and they'll remember it for several generations.

However, I acknowledge that other detectors reading this might have a different perspective, on gold, diamonds, or coinage finds. And also may not have an opportunity to talk as a tenant and neighbour with the landowner. And when that is the case I wholeheartedly agree that a simply pamphlet explaining what detecting should be all about, along with the guidelines of conduct - would be a great thing.

I was looking for exactly that when I went off to look at the NCMD website. I was not impressed by their contract, and I didn't find said pamphlet. If you know of such an explanatory document then I'd be very glad for the link. Otherwise I'll create one myself as and when needed. Then for a stranger whose land I would like to detect on, I can knock on the door, make a very brief introduction and leave the pamphlet for them to read at their leisure. My name, address, telephone number, and NCMD membership number will be on that paper.

NB. Farmers are self employed businessmen and women and should be respected as such in-so-much as their time and finding a convenient time to talk. I can then call back at a later date to ask for an appointment and then when convenient for them to try and open a conversation with them.

Only after everything has been discussed, and an offer of permission verbally made - then I'll ask them if they want that on paper. That document will likewise be rewritten to be very quick at a glance to see what it says, and as simple to fill in. Again I'll most likely write that myself unless I can find a link to a decent one.

One final point is that I'll politely ask for that permission to extend to two or three persons, suitably insured / members of the NCMD. And I will bear responsibility for those persons who might join me in detecting.

Hope that clarifies - Thanks
Bfg ::g
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Re: old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Twit » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:36 pm

I wasn't doubting your approach at all, the comment was made for the wider audience because this side to it is not deeply discussed as far as I am able to make out, a contribution of newcomers is to raise questions forgotten or remind people a little from an outside perspective . From what I see viewpoints and ways have become a bit entrenched in places, so I was hoping to expand a bit on why or how. I think most people go about it all in an acceptable way, but there are enough complaints from detectorists and landowners around also, as well as some tensions between lobbies and organisations of whatever kind.

I don't know of a link that explains to landowners in a fair but also detectorist friendly way, those that I have read lobbying for landowners are a bit hostile towards detectorists. I was also going to suggest rewriting the contract in simple English , but figured you would know how to already :) .

::g

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Re: old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Bfg » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:43 pm

.
I am saddened to report that my faith in others is customarily disappointed, and this is no exception.

rickyp123 who many of you have seen hereabouts for the passed year / 200+ posts has accepted a deposit off myself and another member for Minelab gear in the 'Buy and Sell' section of this very website, but not sent the item, and no longer lives at the address he gave me for collection. :(

There may be a reasonable explanation, particularly as he had written to say he's been in and out of hospital this past week, but there are a number of things out of place here. So, as the local police (what's left of them) were too busy with whatever to look into the matter, the matter has been reported via https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/.

If any of you have anything that may help us sort things out or get our money back (a current address or telephone number perhaps ?), then please privately message me or mrix, or else any other information to the Police on crime reference number : NFRC180102174430.

All others please be forewarned ; Only pay a deposit via Paypal or another similarly insured method, or with cash in hand. This sort of thing can happen - even here !

I may again be looking for a metal detector, suitable for use on salt water wet shores and along country paths. Not too expensive please.

Thanks.
Bfg ::g
Last edited by Bfg on Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by peteh » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:00 pm

That is terrible, BFG not the first steps you wanted into the hobby. Hope you or the police catch up with him

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Re: old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by liamnolan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:26 pm

Anyone looking to trace rickyp just needs to read back through his posts. Lives in Danbury, facial tattoos and attended a LGD rally on 22nd Jan 2017, been detecting 20 years ...
He will be well known, logged in here at 10.49pm last night.
Strange business and I hope Ricky can explain things, Liam :-/
Deus, WSi's - In the end we will regret the chances we didn't take, the relationships we were afraid to have and the decisions we waited too long to make .. Secretary Irish Metal Detecting Society IMDS

Emily
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Re: old giffer taking first baby step in m'dg

Post by Emily » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:33 pm

I’m the other member....I’m only 25 and can’t afford to lose the money that he’s taken!!

I’m completely devastated. :’(

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