NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Discussion of the Makro Multi Kruzer and standard Makro Kruzer discussion only.
dave b
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NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

hi all had my kruzer for 2 weeks now, but having trouble running it stable on farm land.
running 3 tone program gain on 85.
when coil knocks floor or stubble it reacts giving me a target.
also when I tap coil with finger it reacts giving a target.
also very unstable. any advise please, are other users having these issues.
this may be due to machine being very sensitive.
or have I got a faulty coil.



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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by Blackadder43 »

Just as a quick test take the coil cover off, it has been known on any machine in the past that a very tight or not fitted correctly coil cover can squeeze the coil making it false
Stubble has always been known to false machines though, the bump is not liked
If you think about it the coils are sensitive and are designed mainly to swing in the air and not touch stuff

Check all connections too and try reducing the sensitivity to see if it goes away
If its a fault it will do it continuously
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

Hello Dave, knocking the coil and receiving a signal is quite normal for many machines.
As for false signals have you updated the software on your machine ? there was an issue with 3 tone which got resolved in the latest update where the iSAT level by default was set far too high.
Also your gain it set well above the default which is 70, I would suggest updating the software of your machine if you have not done so and do a factory default reset ::g
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dave b
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

hi coil is the same with cover off.
falls signals are only when I knock coil. ie if I swing and hit soil or stubble , tapping coil on soil gets a response also ,. so does lifting in air and tapping with finger.
never had this happen before with other detectors unless coil was faulty.
but this does seem more sensitive than other detectors.
I have been running isat at 0 so not sure update will help, as I can ground balance ok.
if other users kruzers are the same then this must be a sensitivity issue.
I would be very greatful if kruzer owners could try this for me please.try tapping your coil with your finger with these settings and let me know what happens.
3 tone, gain 85, isat 0, disk 3, tone brake 10.
I will try upgrade tonight.
thanks all.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

Hi Dave, as mentioned in my prior post your gain is a little high which could cause problems, try leaving some of your settings at default which could help ::g iSAT I believe by default is 0.1 so setting to Zero will not help the cause.
Also you should really update the software.
Also one other thing check to see your coil connection to the control box is screwed up correctly ::g

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

thanks will try suggestions tonight. ::g

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

dave b wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:33 pm
thanks will try suggestions tonight. ::g
Hi Dave, there are a couple of things to look out for while updating, on the software page they have an update for the standard 14kHz Model and a separate one for the Multi Version, they also have the old version and the new version for each model so you can easily update to the wrong version if you not careful.
Also there is the possibility your anti virus software will alert when you go to install, something to keep an eye open for and allow if you notice the alert ::g
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by agmcg81 »

I've been having similar issues. The machine was running fine in 3 tones on 14khz, but when I tried it on 19khz the machine went crazy. I switched the frequency to F1 which calmed it down a bit, but it was still quite sparky. I noticed the falsing with the slightest bump also. I've just ordered the larger coil so I'll see how that runs on it.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

agmcg81 wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:51 pm
I've been having similar issues. The machine was running fine in 3 tones on 14khz, but when I tried it on 19khz the machine went crazy.
The thing is when you change settings there are so many things to consider which might not seem apparent when having a new machine, often when problems arise its simply a setting.
ie: was you aware that when you change frequency you also have to re-ground balance ?
Increasing the gain will also cause the machine to be far more sensitive and prone to any possible outside interference.
I cannot stress enough to have a very good read through the manual, there are a lot of settings that need to be understood ::g
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

Thanks let me know how it goes with new coil, I have tried all three frequency’s and it makes no diff.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by THE MOLE »

the update was brought out for exactly that reason, when ground balanced in 3 tone it made the machine very sparky, this was due to the isat being set to high (6) in gen mode which is what the machine uses to gb. the isat has now been lowered to 4 when ground balancing but you will never see this as its done in the background. definatly worth doing the update and see how you go from there ::g

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by ninja nige »

hi,
i have been running mine in deep mode all the time, gain at 90 or 96
isat 1 or 0
have run in 5 and19 hz
have had no issues with falsing. it is lively but i am used to that from the mxt
i have not upgraded since getting the machine, should i ????
Nige
.MAKRO MULTI KRUZER.. 750 formula racing car, arsenal season ticket. `11 cats

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by Machinist »

ninja nige wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:02 pm
hi,
i have been running mine in deep mode all the time, gain at 90 or 96
isat 1 or 0
have run in 5 and19 hz
have had no issues with falsing. it is lively but i am used to that from the mxt
i have not upgraded since getting the machine, should i ????
Nige
Hi Nige, I hope you are keeping well. It sounds like you have good ground if you can run in deep at 90 gain or more, the upgrade only affected the ground balancing in 3 tone mode which I was having trouble with on first try with the machine but fixed with the upgrade.

From my understanding it did not alter any of the other modes such as the deep mode that you are using.

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dave b
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

Hi nige when running in deep mode and you tap coil with finger does machine sound.., give a signal.
And when you bump coil.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

dave b wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:36 am
Hi nige when running in deep mode and you tap coil with finger does machine sound.., give a signal.
And when you bump coil.
Hi Dave, did you manage to do the software update ? setting everything back to default to see if you still get the coil sensitivity you have been having ?

You mention in your starter post the machine behaved erratically in 3 tone, as explained this was originally an issue but was resolved in the recent update ::g You also explained you had your gain set at 85 which would make your Kruzer even more sensitive.

mrix

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

ninja nige wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:02 pm

i have not upgraded since getting the machine, should i ????
Nige

Yes I think its important Nige, the iSAT value in General mode while ground balancing in 3 tone has been changed from 6 to 4, this was basically changed in the background of the machine its not something you will notice within the settings.

Basically when you ground balance using the GB button the machine will change into GEN mode without any indication to you and not something you will notice, as explained when this happens your machine is ground balancing at a background isat value of setting 6 and with the new update its ground balancing at isat 4.

Your Kruzer should improve greatly regarding stability when using the 3 tone mode after the update ::g B-)
Its important for everyone to update ::g

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

Hi all, I have not done software upgrade as I had left coil for me to post back to lp but when I got home my lovely wife had posted it for me.
Lp have tested it for me and are sending me a new one as they say it is faulty.
Due back tomorrow the 6 th .
Will let you know how it goes with new coil.
Also contacted makro directly and they have asked me for a video of problem which I may not be able to send now.
Very good customer service from makro and lp.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

New coil has arrived and I have tried it out in garden there is an improvement although not a massive one, it is more stable on gain 88 and only sounds when tapped once gain is over 90.
New coil has a black plug , the old one had a green plug ?
I applied software update ,but this did not seem to affect it in any way.
So I think you are right when you say these machines are very sensitive and knocking the coil can be heard.
I will try it out on Sunday on my land and see if it runs better.
Could be that some of these coils are more sensitive than others , is this a good or a bad thing ?.
:-/

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by ninja nige »

hi,
i have not noticed any undue noise when the coil hits the ground, and i do hit the rough soil a bit.
nige
.MAKRO MULTI KRUZER.. 750 formula racing car, arsenal season ticket. `11 cats

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

Thanks nige , if I run on deep above 90 or 3 tone it is very unstable even with new coil and software update.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

dave b wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:56 pm
Thanks nige , if I run on deep above 90 or 3 tone it is very unstable even with new coil and software update.

Hi Dave, This is the Deepest mode of the Kruzer but the negative side is that its generally more noisier, especially if you have increased the gain to 90 your machine will naturally become unstable, you may also have outside interference in the area you search so reducing the gain and trying another mode should help stabilise the machine.


mrix

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

Thanks I do realise this , I will try it on Sunday see how it performs but I am wondering should I have bought my other choice , as when I last used it it was very annoying, I will run in3 tone and see if it is useable , I do like it’s sensetivity it tells you what is going on in your ground and I have already found 2 hammeys , but in stubble it was a nightmare.
Thanks once again for all your advise it is much appreciated.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by mrix »

Hi Dave, you now have a New coil replacement which you have only tried in your garden, this is not really the ideal place to use any high performance machine as it will likely react erratically, I would not even attempt to try my machine in the garden as generally gardens are filled with no end of rubbish and can be surrounded by electrical interference.

My suggestion would be to try it out in the field, put everything back to default and leave the gain control alone, its only really worth increasing if your ground / area can cope and the machine remains stable which obviously yours is not.

best of luck for a positive outcome ::g
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by Blackadder43 »

dave b wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:38 pm
but in stubble it was a nightmare.
Unfortunately Dave this is not just a Kruzer problem, this problem is machine wide
Stubble is very tough and almost like hitting rocks in places, coils are naturally sensitive to being knocked , purely based on how they are made up
Now add into the mix a "sparky" high sensitivity set up and you are going to have trouble noi matter which machine you use
A possible solution is the smaller 5 or 6 inch coils that can navigate stubble better, not sure if the Kruzer has one though


Think of it this way, in a stubble field it has usually been ploughed in recent years, finds should be close to the surface, and those that arent you will catch at a different time or when the field is ploughed again
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by Blackadder43 »

Just as an experiment type this into a google search bar
"stubble and falsing"

Just those 3 words and read the common theme in every single thread with different machines
I'm sorry to say but you are asking too much of your machine in a stubble environment
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by Easylife »

I don't have a Kruzer, but it is generally better to lower the gain for stability if necessary than have it falsing which is a complete PITA and will probably cause you to miss very faint targets. As said updated and used on basic settings there should be no problems. x;
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

Thanks once again for all your advise , I have not been in stubble before and this machine must be more sensitive than my last machines.
I will let you know how I get on after Sunday’s day out.
Think you are correct I am asking to much of this machine if you want it deep and sparky I will have to put up with falling when I knock it
I was quite happy with it in my garden3 tone gain 88 if it stays like that I will be pleased .
I will compare it to my friends Deus cranked up and see does that fault when knocked.

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by Machinist »

Hi Dave, you are right the Multi Kruzer is a lot more sensitive than many machines as I am finding out.

The first outing with mine was on a club site which was rolled and seeded and very wet, I managed to crank the gain up to 90 without to much of an earache. As we were getting lead boots from the mud we decided it would be better to move to another field nearby.

This was stubble and I had a totally different reaction with the Kruzer, I started with it on the same 90 gain as the last field but the wet stubble made it very sparky and was doing my ears no good at all so I ended up with the gain down to 65 in the end. I have still got much to learn about this machine before I master it. The E-Trac I used prior to this for 2 years must have taken me about 6 months to master and in the end the weight and my advancing years finally demanded I get a lighter machine.

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dave b
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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by dave b »

Hi ray ,thanks for your reassurance , I am still getting to know it but not a lot of adjustments to get your head round , I have had some good finds with it in iron infested sites , guess I will get more comfortable with all the noise over time, I was finding it very deep with targets over 10 inches.
All iron junk though found a couple of hammered silver around 6-7 “
I have only been running in 3 tone gain 88 , disc 3, tone brake 8 , isat 0 or 1.
Hope to get out soon and try some different modes, but my fields will be flooded after todays rain.
I was out in a sudden snow storm the other week and it went bonkers. Shows how sensitive it is .

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Re: NEW Multi Kruzer Problem

Post by THE MOLE »

try upping the isat a bit see what happens ::g after gb`ing that is
Just using the Force Image

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