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ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:02 pm
by thefiggis
What ho, and sorry for the delay in getting this second challenge out. The system threw a wobbler on the first one and sent out email notifications to everybody whenever a reply was made. Said system has since been thrashed with a knobbly stick so all should now be fine. Any road up, on with the motley...

This is an occasional series of threads designed to get an ID on an item, but with a difference. Here, you will have the opportunity to offer your opinion but you won't be influenced by other views as you won't be able to see them. The thread will be locked and you will have three days to submit your ID by using the ID Challenge form (link below). At the end of the allotted time the responses will be collated and put into a now re-opened thread for discussion.

The reason for the challenge format is to give everybody a chance to do their own research and come up with an idea without outside influence, the need to get in first, or indeed feeling that there's no need to offer an ID because someone else has already done it. Everyone is on an equal footing.

While we do of course learn from other people (and long may that continue) and the ID section will continue to run as normal,there's nothing like your own research to give a better, fuller understanding and this series should help us all with that.

So, we hope you'll enjoy the ID Challenge and that you get a lot out of it.

Challenge No.2
Start: Monday 02-07-18
Thread opens for discussion: after 5.00pm on Thursday 05-07-18

The object is copper alloy and measures 24mm long and 11mm wide. The reverse side is blank.

In the challenge series most items submitted will be unidentified at the start but some will be known. This one is known and its purpose will be revealed at the end of any discussion when the thread is opened up.

Have fun ::g

ID Challenge Answer from Allectus -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:11 pm
by Allectus
Medieval strap end from a book-clasp.

ID Challenge Answer from Junior -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:10 pm
by Junior
Saxon , part of a cloths hook, the bit the hook hooks onto ....

ID Challenge Answer from hd1958 -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:45 pm
by hd1958
some sort of strapend

ID Challenge Answer from Spearhead -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:08 pm
by Spearhead
10th century Zoomorphic strap fitting.

ID Challenge Answer from Stillburning -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:14 pm
by Stillburning
Medieval book clasp.

ID Challenge Answer from Easylife -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:53 pm
by Easylife
A book fitting.

ID Challenge Answer from SuperRed -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:15 pm
by SuperRed
Medieval clothes fastener?

ID Challenge Answer from stanslad -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:17 pm
by stanslad
Medieval book clasp piece

ID Challenge Answer from beaubrummell -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:04 pm
by beaubrummell
Sword belt hanger? Saxon maybe.

ID Challenge Answer from Bootneck45RM -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:01 pm
by Bootneck45RM
Are you being sneaky and showing it upside down - could it be a swinging pull handle of some sort?

ID Challenge Answer from Swany -

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:59 pm
by Swany
A user, Swany, has applied with an Answer for the ID Challenge.
Real name: Swany

A medieval book clasp.

ID Challenge Answer from Saki -

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:19 am
by Saki
A user, Saki, has applied with an Answer for the ID Challenge.
Real name: Saki

Late 16th, or very early 17th century Candle ejector

ID Challenge Answer from Bootneck45RM -

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:11 pm
by Bootneck45RM
Book clasp ??

ID Challenge Answer from Bootneck45RM -

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:18 pm
by Bootneck45RM
Early clothes fastener.

ID Challenge Answer from oldartefact -

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:21 pm
by oldartefact
Female side of a dress fastening.

ID Challenge Answer from Spooky -

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:46 pm
by Spooky
Medieval Dress Hook

ID Challenge Answer from shaggybfc -

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:39 pm
by shaggybfc
Broken part of a Roman book clasp.

ID Challenge Answer from saxman -

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:54 pm
by saxman
Post medieval clothes fastening.....not sure what else to say really

ID Challenge Answer from Lolly -

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:03 pm
by Lolly
A key of some type maybe

ID Challenge Answer from CTX_Phil -

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:59 pm
by CTX_Phil
I would say a ***** medieval book fitting....judging by the clean, rich patina I would say it was found in ******, Suffolk ;)

Certain details edited out cos of Phil's remarkable detective skills which would scuttle the discussion which will hopefully follow. I am in awe, O Master :D ::g

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:11 pm
by thefiggis
Thanks, everyone, for all your responses and hopefully you got something out of any research ::g

The resourcefulness of some people never fails to amaze me and a couple of you (you know who you are ;) ) showed just how deep they can delve and should get jobs with a private detective agency. :E

Any road up, there appear to be two main camps on this one - the book claspers and the dress hookers (both of which descriptions sound vaguely indecent) - and it might be interesting to hear how you arrived at your answers. What were the features of the item which caused you to go the way you did? What pointers did you follow?

Thanks again for a great response and hopefully an enlightening discussion will follow, at the end of which I'll post up what it is and why I selected it for this challenge.

::g

Oh, one last thing... if anyone gets an email notification whenever a reply is made to this thread please let me know. This was an issue on the last challenge but which has now hopefully been seen off.

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:41 pm
by CTX_Phil
Lol I was looking at my edited post above with the added stars thinking I don't recall swearing x;

I imagine the rectangular loop on one end would have made some think it was a dress fastener but the opposite end definitely suggests something different ๐Ÿ‘

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:47 pm
by Junior
I'm I going blind.....can't see what it woz ???? x; thanks.....sorry jumping the gun a bit....where's my prize.....an equionox would b good ( prob wrong like last time it'll b a book clasp thingies thing)

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:58 pm
by thefiggis
Patience, grasshopper...

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:59 pm
by fred
Look in the PAS Finds Recording Guides and all will be revealed! :D

There are guides out for most classes of small metal objects. They are incredibly detailed and, unlike the database itself sometimes, pretty consistently reliable! ::g

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:02 pm
by Junior
fred wrote: โ†‘
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:59 pm
Look in the PAS guides and all will be revealed! :D
Toooooo hot for tooooo much finggggggger movement 8-}

Fred ......how come only 1 explorer..... :D

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:42 pm
by thefiggis
As already said, the ID of the item falls largely within two groups and this is hardly surprising since the FLO did this all by his very own self when he IDed it as a clothes fastener from the pics I sent him but changed it to medieval book clasp when I handed it over. The PAS description reads:
An incomplete cast copper-alloy book fitting dating to the Medieval period, c. 1350-1450. Originally the fitting consisted of a separate fitting and plate, though now only the former survives intact. The object consists a rectangular projecting loop at the back edge of the object (effectively creating a strap-bar) which transitions into a circular body with a circular aperture at its centre (through which a stud attached to the book itself would have fitted) and incised decoration on its upper surface. Extending from the front edge of the mid-section is a zoomorphic terminal with a second circular aperture through its 'mouth', angled at right-angles to the main orientation of the fitting itself.
The fact that the FLO misidentified it from photos highlights the fact that sometimes you really need to have an object in your hand to get the true picture and that small details can alter that picture. (Search for Read type E fastener and see how similar it is.)

It goes to illustrate that here on the forum we only have images to go by, so the request to include as much information as you can with your ID request is an important one, especially when it comes to artefacts. It's also testimony to the incredible knowledge base on here that thousands of successful IDs have been made by the images alone. Spend a little time and effort in constructing your ID request and those who are willing to help will have a far better chance of giving you an accurate ID. Remember - they'll rarely if ever have the chance to physically examine it.

So, thanks to all who took part and we'll have a new challenge for you soon.

::g

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:20 pm
by Junior
Dooooooooo.wrong again.......2 out of 2 ::g

Re: ID Challenge No 2 (02 - 05/07/18)

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:35 pm
by Oxgirl36
Junior wrote: โ†‘
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:20 pm
Dooooooooo.wrong again.......2 out of 2 ::g
But you tried. In my book thatโ€™s a brilliant thumbs up ::g