Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

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Steve Stacey
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Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Steve Stacey » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:22 pm

Hi All

Had above machine for about 5 years now and found v little with it. Despite its reputation for simplicity and ability to winkle out small silver coins, am having a nightmare reconciling the vdi and graph on the display. I've tried to get clarity from supplier and looking at stuff on internet, but nothing addresses the specific problem. Have three issues:

1.The situation is when to dig when you get 95 vdi. Some say ignore, period, as this is large iron, others say dig as long as column is in far right, as could well be copper coins.

2. What do you do when vdi and graph all over the place. (as happens v often😡)

3. What graph/vdi would you expect with hammered silver coin?

Many thanks for your time.

Steve



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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Koala » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:51 pm

Just too many variables

As an example I was out detecting Sunday. Really nice soil. However signals that would normally be dismissed 100% as iron were in fact copper buttons slightly masked by nearby coke. This has to be learnt by putting in the hours with the machine.

Best thing with a new machine is to start by digging every signal.

Large items near the surface will confuse the detector. More reliable number if you lift the coil slightly.

Generally digging by numbers is not a good idea. Solid hits are fairly reliable but weaker signal will be all over the place numbers wise.

When I start to use my current detector I kept notes. Ground conditions, settings, items dug, tone given. (faint, loud, broken, crisp and short, long so on)

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Easylife » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:57 pm

I know nothing about Laser, but generally to confirm if target is iron or not when number is close. If on cultivated land, kick some soil away and recheck. If unsure on pasture dig a shallow plug and recheck. If numbers improve you will normally find a non ferrous target. If they do not improve then it's probably iron. Numbers all over the place is normally coke, but not always. Bear in mind iron masking which there is to an extent on many sites most of the time which can confuse your vdi & graph. If in doubt just dig it and learn from experience.
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Arch Stanton
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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Arch Stanton » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:24 am

Hi Steve, I have had a Hawkeye for about 2 months now and love it, but I know what you mean about confusing signals and VDU readings! To be honest you can never be 100% certain that what the display is telling you is what is going to be in the ground, but I think that is true for every detector. There is such a cross-over with metals and the signals they give, that I tend to set discrim just above iron, and dig pretty-much all steady, two-way signals that register above about 10. You will dig ring pulls, but you wont miss the silver rings that give similar signals. You can always set the discrim real low and turn it up once you've beeped a signal, to try to id it. The way the Hawkeye manual explains it is if the ID no is low and the bars on the display is down in the iron/foil section, then it's almost definitely iron. If the ID no. is high and the bars are over towards the right then dig it, it's almost definitely non-ferrous. If the bars and no's are jumping about all over the place, then it's almost definitely odd-shaped iron. So basically you want the bars to match the ID no...The manual then confuses things further, by showing a possible unique display for small gold items, that shows the bars in the iron section, with a ID no. of 12. As long as this is a steady, stable, two way signal, give it a dig. The old saying of 'If in doubt, dig it out' holds true, and let's face it, the fun is in the digging....! Big iron and items with holes like chain links and washers confuses most detectors though and I've had plenty of horseshoes and things that read a steady 95, but you've gotta dig a 95! I get plenty of lead, showing 95's and this includes musket balls, which I like. Don't forget though, to work at dodgy signals before dismissing them - try them from different angles and directions, even scrape a few inches off the topsoil and try again, you may find the signal stabilises and becomes very diggable. If I have time, and there's not much action, I will occasionally even dig iron signals, just to see what they are! I also have a Laser Scout, which doesn't have the VDU, and sometimes wonder if I miss fewer items with it, simply because it is a little more tricky to discern between signals and therefore dig more items.....! As Easylife and Koala say, The only real way of knowing is by digging it, the VDU only really gives you clues as to what it may be......! Happy hunting!
I've done the 'buckle boogie', the 'musket-ball mambo' and even the 'silver shuffle', but sadly still no 'gold dance'. You're really gonna know it when you see it though!

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by littleboot » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:12 am

To be honest as an ex-Tesoro user, the machines are now surpassed by other brands and newer technology. Tesoro/Laser were great back in the Day. They were refreshingly light when everyone else was lugging around a brick on a stick. That advantage is now gone...lots of better light weight options.
Tesoro never really had the budget to keep pace with the changes and have ended up in a bit of a time warp performance-wise which is a shame.
The problem with read-outs...and to a certain extent with sounds....is they are only accurate to a particular depth. I had three Tesoros over the yeas...Sidewinder, Tejon, Invincible. The Invincible is the only one I'd still use and it would be a back-up machine. It was one of the top Tesoro models, coming in at Hawkeye price or above, and it didn't have a readout. What it did have, and is much more useful, is a three-tone mode which allowed me to get a much more accurate feel for what I was digging. You have to learn what your Detector is telling you, learn its language....Displays are really the equivalent of relying on sub-titles.

I don't think anyone will be able to help you solve this. Your land will be different and you clearly have a problem getting on with it. It isn't a well-used machine these days for the reasons stated above. I would suggest you sell it, to be frank. Regardless of how much it cost 5 years ago it clearly isn't doing what it is supposed to....A) Finding stuff and B) Being something you have fun using. Get something else. Start enjoying the hobby again. 5 years is enough in a relationship that is disfunctional. ;)
Last edited by littleboot on Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by geoffb » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:25 am

Hi,
About 5 years ago I used to have a Hawkeye and had the same problems.
I had no confidence in the machine whatsoever.
The main problem I had was that it often gave an "overload" signal on good targets.
For example, if a Victorian penny was only about 1 inch below the surface it would go into overload. This would normally indicate a piece of large scrap.
I can agree with Littleboot that Tesoro were great machines. Over the years I have used the Gold and silver sabre and they were great detectors. Especially the silver sabre, which, for the price was a brilliant performer in all aspects. (And still is).
If you are not happy with the Hawkeye I suggest you buy another detector. I was not happy with mine and got rid of it.
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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Steve Stacey » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:50 pm

Thanks again. I think I'll:

Dig everything above 10.

Don't dig 95 (although over 10), unless graph is consistent with number.

Avoid all inconsistencies between graph and number, except where bar in iron and vdi on 12 (guaranteed gold stater).

Avoid digging in all situations when graph and number keep changing (as happens v often)

Consider lifting coil and switching to all metal to listen to tone.

You couldn't make it up. Would be funny if I hadn't forked out so much. I'd found about a dozen hammies in same period with Silver Sabre.

Thanks

PS Would still like to know, all other things being equal, what a hammies might register as?

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Long Jon Silver Foil » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:22 pm

Well I hate to say it, but if you haven't got the hang of it in five years, you're not gonna get it. Sometimes you gel with a detector and sometimes not. Well done for persevering though! I bought my second hand hawkeye for £250 and like it.
Think you should cut your losses and trade it in before it puts you off! Depending on depth, soil, how they're sitting and ground conditions, I've had hammies reading 65-95. There's no set value in every case, other than they've been diggable signals.
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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Mud Max » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:30 pm

I spoke to a very reputable person in detectors sales who described it as an "average detector but don't trust the VDI".

Possibly explains why most Tesoro/Laser don't have one.
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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Koala » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:44 pm

Steve Stacey wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:50 pm
Thanks again. I think I'll:

Dig everything above 10.

Don't dig 95 (although over 10), unless graph is consistent with number.

Avoid all inconsistencies between graph and number, except where bar in iron and vdi on 12 (guaranteed gold stater).

Avoid digging in all situations when graph and number keep changing (as happens v often)

Consider lifting coil and switching to all metal to listen to tone.

You couldn't make it up. Would be funny if I hadn't forked out so much. I'd found about a dozen hammies in same period with Silver Sabre.

Thanks

PS Would still like to know, all other things being equal, what a hammies might register as?
Not forgetting sweep speed :D



All detectors are the same. VDI is not to be relied on. Many Deus users keep the remote in there pocket and go of the tones.


First thing I would do is try with the sensitivity turned down a bit.

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by johnboy25 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:12 pm

Interesting reading all your comments on the Laser Hawkey, I have experienced most of the problems and confusing signals in my nearly 5 years of use..... I have had many days of Detecting with not any finds and I have had a few good days , put i put it down to not walking over it then down to a poor machine..... no just yet rushing out to change it .

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Arch Stanton » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:56 am

I haven't had my Hawkeye for long, and not found hammered yet, but I've no reason to believe there's hammered on my permission! I've found a silver thimble, a 1921 florin and a 1838 silver fourpence, all at good depths, along with dozens of coppers in all conditions, so I've every confidence it can do the biz. They haven't got their reputation for finding small silver from nowhere after all! Even if they are getting a bit long-in-the-tooth, they don't suddenly stop being good, it's just that newer detectors are getting better!
I've done the 'buckle boogie', the 'musket-ball mambo' and even the 'silver shuffle', but sadly still no 'gold dance'. You're really gonna know it when you see it though!

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Steve Stacey » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:24 am

Thanks again. You obviously don't experience any of my issues re confusing signals and graph. Good luck😀

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by Trudger » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:04 pm

I've come to this discussion a bit late but may have something to offer. I have used a Hawkeye since 2004 and think the model deserves a bit of positive feedback. Mine has consistently delivered the smallest hammereds cut halves and quarters, plus quarter staters. Also hundreds (literally) of other finds recorded on the PAS. I have watched all the various brands come and go as the "must haves" of the moment - currently the Deus. Seriously, has depth really improved by any tangible margins over all these years? The basic physics are the same. Most of my club colleagues have upgraded along the way and still are often puzzled by being outgunned by the "Hawk". They are quite deep and powerful machines with 12v power (like Minelabs) on tap from the 8 AAs; it can help to wind the sensitivity back in cluttered conditions. The key is to establish a stable two way signal at any point on the scale from 10 upwards and sweep low and very slow. Any signals randomly jumping around should be ignored. If the readout spans two block sections, but is stable, then dig it. Sometimes a good signal can appear out of almost nothing when you carefully tease it out. Also experiment with the discrimination to see where your particular machine "loses" items equivalent to a small hammered and set the discrim accordingly lower. The standard Hawkeye operates at 10 kHz using the older concentric web coil. Newer models are fitted with the Tesoro DoubleD web coil which can improve stability at the cost of a little depth. I did have my machine tweaked by Pentechnic up to 12.5kHz to improve sensitivity a little when it was also fitted withe the DD coil. Still going strong - durability and reliability second to none.

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by AnalogueSkywalker » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:02 am

The people on here that think that the Tesoro’s are out of date are mistaken. The analogue technology just gives you the information contained in the subtleties of the, so called, one tone audio. One pitch audio is what it really is. This technology can discriminate to the full extent of its depth capability, what digital machine can offer that? So no bouncy VDI numbers to confuse the issue.

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Re: Laser Hawkeye: Interpretation of signals

Post by garrettoldboy » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:16 am

hello, i never liked the Hawkeye, when they were first sold many i knew bought one, to soon sell or px, not for the faint hearted detectorist

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