H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by oldartefact » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:59 pm

I would say that the HAMMY code should only be applied to folk who have been on the forum for some time ... First post ID's should be welcomed open armed... no need to censor or point the person to the HAMMY code thread, probably best to let it ride so to speak, quote Joan Collins "live for the moment".
its not the code that is "the problem" as responses above attest to overwhelming support, I guess the issue is how and when its applied.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Steve_T » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:15 pm

Just a thought......why not have a "New member guide" tab in the main index with just the most relevant easy tips all short and simple including links within those to the more in depth guides and lock them, such as below
HAMMY code
How to take photo tips
How to crop then resize
How to post

If people post without including what is required in the first 5 post anyone who sees it directs them to it, just a prompt of please see and read the New member guide, without being critical and putting off a new member

There are some very good guides on how to do things, all designed to help in really positive and simple ways to produce some pretty decent posts to get some good replies, the more people can give, the better the response to it

If anyone is really stuck with something I am more than happy to help and guide a new or established member in confidence if they want to PM me

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Allectus » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:51 pm

Knowing the size of some coins is crucial for a full ID. Here's three Elizabeth I coins that all look the same but, are in fact, three different denominations.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

A ;)

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by hartsman » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:19 am

Allectus wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:51 pm
Knowing the size of some coins is crucial for a full ID. Here's three Elizabeth I coins that all look the same but, are in fact, three different denominations.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

A ;)
I'm not going to ID them for you without a scale. =))

Seriously though, it doesn't take a mo' to give some idea of size to help the many excellent id'ers on here.

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by beaubrummell » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:23 am

I have to add that in my experience new members who request ID's without giving the requested information are always politely sent a link to the HAMMY Code for future reference. I have never read a post from one of the Mods that came across as unfriendly or scolding to a new member.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Dangerous Norman » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:05 pm

Being relatively new to MD and this forum I can't remember seeing the HAMMY code until today.

When I find something I will spend some time trying to ID it. I will photograph the item, often with a close up lens or digital microscope and good lighting so as to get a hi def. image. This can be up to 50 photos per side to get a good high def image or to focus stack it and this can end up with 2 40mb plus files which I keep but resize if I post them.

At first I didn't add scale till I personally realised that looking at the image later I had forgotten what size it was and that scale was important help for ID as some coins are so similar it's only diameter or weight that confirms the correct ID.

To me this isn't a bother and I feel it is only right the ppl wanting an ID at least goes to the effort of taking 2 in focus shots prior to posting. I fully support the HAMMY code

I'm admin in a non-MD related FB group. One of my pet hates is someone (not always new members) who can't be bothered to read recent posts and asks exactly the same question that has been asked 2 or 3 times within the last 7-10 days.

Trying to ID an item is not only part of the hobby but is fun and increases the interest, so much so I will often carry out research in an attempt to ID the item if I don't have any of my own to ID.

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by littleboot » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:24 pm

beaubrummell wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:23 am
I have to add that in my experience new members who request ID's without giving the requested information are always politely sent a link to the HAMMY Code for future reference. I have never read a post from one of the Mods that came across as unfriendly or scolding to a new member.
Exactly so!

I think most new members quickly appreciate what is required and improve the quality of their ID requests within a short time.
HOWEVER....There are some new members who, regardless of how politely they are requested to add extra info, continue to go ahead and put up things for ID requests without any. Some of them are extremely curt one line or one phrase narratives. Nothing else.
And then a few days or weeks later they pop back and do exactly the same again. I think there should be a different approach to these particular posters. They are being what my dad used to call 'hard faced'. :-L
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by oldartefact » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:13 pm

Allectus wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:51 pm
Knowing the size of some coins is crucial for a full ID. Here's three Elizabeth I coins that all look the same but, are in fact, three different denominations.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

A ;)
Totally spot on .. but i do feel sorry for folk who ask for an ID of their first bit of rusty iron ... hopes abounding ... only to be asked for a scale.
But there is a very serious point (not trying to tell Granny how to suck eggs btw) .. the HAMMY code is a one size fits all code... when in reality different elements of the code are more important for coins, whilst other elements of the code are more important for artifacts, and I think that it maybe that aspect that can cause frustration among some folk who put up objects, clearly not needing a scale, only to be asked for a scale. In my world a "Pilgrims Ampulla" or "Vesica seal matrix" dont need scales for an accurate ID... its just how it is... (King with the invisible clothes and all that).
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by king of the swingers » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:09 pm

I think you would of got a fairer view if it had been a vote were people wouldn't feel judged on there vote. Most people want an easy life and will not get involved in this sort of debate. I get the code but think some items dont always need rulers, or two pics ive had plenty of items were a second picture has no use as we are told to resize pictures because its a waste of hard drive space so adding the second pic is a waste. Also telling people they need to put a better picture up to get an id ,when the item has already been id cracks me up every time.

I enjoy the forum and long may it continue

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by mrix » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:30 pm

Hello all, first I would like to say a huge thanks for the feedback, we asked for positive and negative honest feedback and that`s what we got ::g B-)

This topic will stay open until Saturday night giving more members who do not frequent the MDF on a daily basis the chance to reply if they wish to do so.

After the topic is locked off we will digest all the replies and use them to try and make any possible improvements on the present H.A.M.M.Y Code System ::g
Huge thanks again
mrix

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by oldartefact » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:12 pm

king of the swingers wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:09 pm
I think you would of got a fairer view if it had been a vote were people wouldn't feel judged on there vote. Most people want an easy life and will not get involved in this sort of debate. I get the code but think some items dont always need rulers, or two pics ive had plenty of items were a second picture has no use as we are told to resize pictures because its a waste of hard drive space so adding the second pic is a waste. Also telling people they need to put a better picture up to get an id ,when the item has already been id cracks me up every time.

I enjoy the forum and long may it continue
You've summed it up very well KOS, with no disrespect to anyone... I sometimes play a game with myself... trying to guess how long it will take for an unsuspecting poster, to be referred to the code.. I kid not, and it really shouldn't be like this. There is a very fine line between helpful advice and dictatorship, and I dont envy others who have to make the choice whether to give "advice" or let "things ride" ... my preference btw is to take the line of least resistance... its an art that can be learnt, but sadly cant be taught.
Just to add on your "wouldn't feel judged" observation ,,, when/if a forum environment descends to "prefects" and "plebs" then one must ask whether or not the balance ... has gone totally the wrong way.. lets call a spade a spade ... it seems to me like there is a "moderators club" and to be honest it spolis the whole forum experience... yes lets have strong and appropriate moderation, but please can we put to bed this "holier than though" prefect mentality. Sorry folks ... i've been here for 6 years .. I know how it was when I joined, and I know how it is now.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Travers-04 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:54 pm

Here's my view
I had a great days digging last year, I found 6 roman coins and a nice brooch later that week I took some pictures and uploaded after resizing and did a good write up with scale and I'd numbers, not soon after I had 2 pm saying I've uploaded more than four photos and if I did it again my post would be deleted, I did not realise 4 was the maximum

I also forgot to add scale to a hammered coin I found which seem to of upset some people although the guy who made the I'd had no issues and was very helpful as always

I enjoy the site and there's alot of very helpful and knowledgeable people

But some people are more interested if you made a mistake than what you have found

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Bors » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:06 pm

I don`t think you can categorise what does need a scale and what doesn`t ,because the vast amounts of variations between coins and artefacts are too big ,so its just as simple to state everything is to have a scale . Its not exactly going to put anyone out to stick a scale behind the coin or item anyway is it, and if it helps with the ID`ing all the better ?
Last edited by Bors on Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by mrix » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:34 pm

Travers-04 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:54 pm
I had 2 pm saying I've uploaded more than four photos and if I did it again my post would be deleted, I did not realise 4 was the maximum

Hello and trying not to go off topic as this thread is focused on the H.A.M.M.Y Code and not the Daily image quota.

You should of recieved a message that simply stated you have exceeded the image quota so in future could you please remember to stick within the daily quota when using the attachment feature as images are hosted on the MDF server, you can however upload as many images as you like if you use an offsite image hosting site and link to them.

From what I can establish your extra images were allowed to stay in place ::g

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Spooky » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:42 pm

Personally i like the whole idea of the hammy code and use a scale with my pics as a habit .
Its not a big deal and i dont understand why anyone would not bother to do so unless its a quick excited snap in the field when first pulled out the ground.. which i can kinda understand too. ::g ={~#
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Skytriker » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:28 am

f8met wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:37 pm
I guess that unless you have held a quarter, a half and a full stater then you don't appricate the size of them. It could be argued that a standard hammered penny shouldn't need a scale but why not add one? Again unless you see a Edward I half and quarter or a half groat and groat then you don't appricate how easy it is to get confused.
This is a good point. I am sure the expert identifiers on here know what coin they are looking at, regardless of scale. But what about us less experienced souls, who would find it useful to visualise the true size of a coin or artefact. I am sure the people who argue against/can’t be bothered with, a scale go to a great deal of trouble researching sites and gaining permission, so how hard is it to photograph the coin against a scale. After all, it has to be placed on something. :-/
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by littleboot » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:41 pm

Bors wrote
Its not exactly going to put anyone out to stick a scale behind the coin or item anyway is it, and if it helps with the ID`ing all the better ?
That is my view too. It's not simply a case of whether a scale is absolutely essential for ID (as in the example perfectly illustrated by Allectus) is it? I want to know the size of things. How big is that Ampulla?
I have found several and in a variety of sizes. Oh yes, one can identify it for the original poster as an ampulla without a scale being added. But the ID section isn't just about quick fix ID s of objects. It is about ...and should be....the exchange of information and the sharing of knowledge. This all goes into the mix . Not everything comes up in great or complete condition so when a partifact is presented it is easier to ID it if we have a knowledge bank which is reinforced by knowing sizes.
As said before its a two-way street. That is what makes the forum...and the ID section....so interesting. Its what gets me coming back. There is always something new to learn and investigate.
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by f8met » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:48 pm

So can anyone give a good reason why a scale shouldn't be used when posting for an id?
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by slowsweep » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:42 am

clear pics and scale are all that is required for a coin id, everything else is irrelevant B-)
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by liamnolan » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:52 am

mrix wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:30 pm
Hello all, first I would like to say a huge thanks for the feedback, we asked for positive and negative honest feedback and that`s what we got ::g B-)

This topic will stay open until Saturday night giving more members who do not frequent the MDF on a daily basis the chance to reply if they wish to do so.

After the topic is locked off we will digest all the replies and use them to try and make any possible improvements on the present H.A.M.M.Y Code System ::g
Huge thanks again
mrix
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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by Bradrick » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:30 pm

In my view the HAMMY code is absolutely fine as it is. The guidelines are clear enough (for those who can be bothered to read it), although I totally accept that those new to the forum will be in a hurry to post without looking at the ‘small print’. I have never seen anything more than a ‘gentle’ reminder from a mod when someone hasn’t done this (and that includes me), so I have to totally disagree with you OA mate – I (for one) would hate to see this forum turn into a “wots this” or “wots this worth” forum like so many Faceache pages.

The only suggestion I would make would be to place a ‘very’ abridged version of the ‘posting rules’ (newcomers won’t know what HAMMY is) in a prominent place at the head of ‘Finds ID’. I can’t remember whether phpbb is flexible enough to include a brief prompt on just the posting page.

The many excellent IDers on here give their time free and it is only courteous to give them the information they ask for without continuous prompts. Yes, patience with those posting for the first time, but I don’t have any problems with the polite mod reminders. I think that their patience with that monotonous task is probably more than I could manage.

I accept that people new to detecting or the MDF may not see the point in posting the seemingly unimportant ‘virtually blank’ side of a coin, or the reverse of a button, but again once the value has been pointed out and our researchers have given them copious information there is no excuse for continuing to do it.

I have heard comments that MDF is ‘rigid’, but I have also noticed that at least one of those has posted on here since to get an ID for something inconclusive on FB! I have collected various specific items since I was a kid and detected on-and-off since the 80s, but my ID skills have improved massively (on things I wasn’t even aware of) since joining, and I for one am grateful for the structure of MDF. We have brilliant researchers and Allectus is worth his weight in gold, so if they require specific information just adhere to it. It’s free for Heaven’s sake and a lot of people are giving their time. I have already had one entry on the PAS revised when I queried it from advice from Tony.

In short: Keep the HAMMY, position an abridged version where it is harder to miss, continue to send polite reminders to newbies… stop complaining and be careful what you wish for!

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by king of the swingers » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:27 pm

I review stats as part of my work and this an epic fail . you have 38 different people answering a post viewed by over 2300 which includes your moderators. And every time someone trys to have an opinion its halted by how good the code is. This should be repeated in a more inclusive way people dont want to say anything as moderators will jump on them in future posts. YOU may try deny this but if you forget two image or a ruler that enough to get them going. Also out of the the comments made half are 2018 members. which when you look at the views tells alot B| ;;z
I do like mdf tho best forum out there

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Re: H.A.M.M.Y Code - Feedback Required Please

Post by mrix » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:59 pm

Hello all, this topic is now closed, huge thanks for the feedback, we will dissect and analyse it over the coming days to see if we can pull certain parts from it to improve the H.A.M.M.Y Code ::g B-)
Thanks again
mrix

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