My favourite find for a while. Help needed. THIS THREAD IS WELL WORTH A READ

Please tell us a little about your finds and if possible add a few pictures.
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My favourite find for a while. Help needed. THIS THREAD IS WELL WORTH A READ

Post by Me and my boy » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:54 pm

I know there’s no scale and I’m sorry but I’m on my way home.

I found this on the edge of a field and thought it was tin can by the sound of it. It was about 4-5” deep.

I need some help as to straightening if possible and safe cleaning. I haven’t even rinsed it yet. I would like to try and return it to a family member if there’s a way to do so. It is from Miami by the looks of things.

It’s the first one I’ve found and it was in the same village that my relatives( grandmother, great grand parents etc) lived during ww1 and ww2 and within half a mile of their house.

Any help appreciated.
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Last edited by Me and my boy on Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Lowland » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:13 pm

Excellent find meandmyboy-with some really interesting research to come.
Nice one ::g
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by hartsman » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:16 pm

I wouldn't try and straighten or clean it. I think it would snap in half as it looks very thin. Good luck in the research. ::g

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Saffron » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:19 pm

Trying to straighten it might be a risk.

However give it a GENTLE clean with water (distilled if you have any) and old toothbrush.

Then post the details and we will start trying to research it for you.
(I looked at the pictures but was not confident that I was reading it all correctly).

Evan

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:22 pm

I’ve deciphered the name Clarence Williams so far. My wife thinks I maybe opening a can of worms and somethings are best left in the ground🧐
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Oxgirl36 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:24 pm

Ohhhh interesting. Once you get some better pics I’m sure you/ we can piece together the wording.
We all love a good mystery :D

With respect your wife can sometimes be wrong =))
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Machinist » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:39 pm

Here is a good site about US dog tags to help you decipher what it all means.
https://www.med-dept.com/articles/u-s-a ... -dog-tags/

I am in the don't straighten it camp.

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Saffron » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:48 pm

Me and my boy wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:22 pm
I’ve deciphered the name Clarence Williams so far. My wife thinks I maybe opening a can of worms and somethings are best left in the ground🧐

You cruel man. Your wife is perfectly correct you should always leave worms in the ground, never put them in a can and take home.


Sorry folks I will get my coat.

Evan

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:55 pm

Saffron wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:48 pm
Me and my boy wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:22 pm
I’ve deciphered the name Clarence Williams so far. My wife thinks I maybe opening a can of worms and somethings are best left in the ground🧐

You cruel man. Your wife is perfectly correct you should always leave worms in the ground, never put them in a can and take home.


Sorry folks I will get my coat.

Evan
🤣🤣
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Bibelot » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:26 am

The notch indicates that it is a WW2 tag or later

https://familyrelatives.com/search/us_s ... n=Williams
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:45 am

Bibelot wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:26 am
The notch indicates that it is a WW2 tag or later

https://familyrelatives.com/search/us_s ... n=Williams
Great link thanks. And I thought I had nailed it with an id🤣,I didn’t realise it was such a popular name.
Back to the drawing board then😮
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Saxon = 1( broken sceatta)
Celtic. = 1
Silver denarius = 6
Gold Roman = 0
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:48 am

There’s probably as many wives called Ruby Lee Clarence too
Last edited by Me and my boy on Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2019 hammies. = 133 (including quarters, halves and broken)
Saxon = 1( broken sceatta)
Celtic. = 1
Silver denarius = 6
Gold Roman = 0
Gold ring. = 0
Gold hammered .= 1😀

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Dave The Slave » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:44 am

With the recent D Day events, these tags have some fascinating History.
Watching an episode of " Vintage Tech Hunters " on History channel last week. they bought one of the machines that stamped out the tags, rather like a large typewriter. Prior to a certain date, they were individually stamped out by hand.
Great tag find with a personal History to it, ::g
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by shaggybfc » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:02 am

Agree with OG, sometimes wives are best ignored :D
I also like a good mystery and look forward to this forum's detective work. ::g

You have the soldiers name and address, so in my ignorant, I'd have though tracing this chap would be easy?
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:14 am

shaggybfc wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:02 am
Agree with OG, sometimes wives are best ignored :D
I also like a good mystery and look forward to this forum's detective work. ::g

You have the soldiers name and address, so in my ignorant, I'd have though tracing this chap would be easy?
Andi
Not for me🤪, I’m slightly challenged.

I’m still looking it up👍
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Easylife » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Here's your man.
Clarence was Dishonourably discharged. for murdering a fellow soldier, see page 91.
CW.png
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by shaggybfc » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Easylife wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:37 pm
Here's your man.
Clarence was Dishonourably discharged for murdering a fellow soldier.
for once, it sounds like the wife was right, some things are best left buried....
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Lowland » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:27 pm

shaggybfc wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:46 pm
Easylife wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:37 pm
Here's your man.
Clarence was Dishonourably discharged for murdering a fellow soldier.
for once, it sounds like the wife was right, some things are best left buried....
Blimey.
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by coal digger » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:37 pm

Talk about bringing the past to life... or in his case taking it x; .You never know what this hobby will turn up and the associated stories,cd ::g
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Pete E » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Easylife wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:37 pm
Here's your man.
Clarence was Dishonourably discharged. for murdering a fellow soldier, see page 91.

CW.png
If you read through the document, after being Dishonourably Discharged, he was actually jailed for life...I wonder what became of him? There is an outside chance he is actually still alive, maybe even still in jail..
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:43 pm

Back I go to where I found him, tail between my legs. He’s going back from where I found him.
Ps we won’t tell the wife she was right( again🙄)
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Saxon = 1( broken sceatta)
Celtic. = 1
Silver denarius = 6
Gold Roman = 0
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Gold hammered .= 1😀

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Pete E » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:46 pm

Me and my boy wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:43 pm
Back I go to where I found him, tail between my legs. He’s going back from where I found him.
Ps we won’t tell the wife she was right( again🙄)
I would not get rid of the tag, its far too interesting a story..In fact I would be tempted to mount the tag in a frame along with a copy of the appeal document outlining the events...

At the end of the day, its all "history" whether we like it or not, and its not very often you can get a corroborated back story to link to a find like that...
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by shaggybfc » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:13 pm

Me and my boy wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:43 pm
Ps we won’t tell the wife she was right( again🙄)
Too right, never show a sign of weakness ::g :D
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They told me I’d never be any good at poetry, because I’m dyslexic, but so far I’ve made 3 jugs and a vase.

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:23 pm

Easylife wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:37 pm
Here's your man.
Clarence was Dishonourably discharged. for murdering a fellow soldier, see page 91.

CW.png
Top detective work Easylife.
Last edited by Me and my boy on Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2019 hammies. = 133 (including quarters, halves and broken)
Saxon = 1( broken sceatta)
Celtic. = 1
Silver denarius = 6
Gold Roman = 0
Gold ring. = 0
Gold hammered .= 1😀

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by shaggybfc » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:37 pm

It's actually a great, but very sad story.
I wonder if there was any racial motivation to these events - was he 'abused' in the cafe because of the colour if his skin? The 4 chaps he shot at - were they white? It's well documented the troubles black people went through in the US at this time. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a miscarriage of justice - taking full blame because he was black. We will never know. It's fascinating what history a single metal detecting find can uncover ::g
Send the detail to Mr Spielberg, he'll make a film out of it, you'll be minted :D

edit, great detective work Easylife. ::g
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by GeorgeMK » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:48 pm

Pete E wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:46 pm
I would not get rid of the tag, its far too interesting a story..In fact I would be tempted to mount the tag in a frame along with a copy of the appeal document outlining the events...

At the end of the day, its all "history" whether we like it or not, and its not very often you can get a corroborated back story to link to a find like that...
I agree, it is history, and whatever way you look at it it is a sad story of an event that occurred in the war.

It is easy to speculate what alleged ridicule Clarence endured, given the era and the fact he was a negro soldier. It is also easy to speculate what life around him was like on service in France. He had initially been enlisted for a year, but this was extended and he was still serving overseas when this happened.

Homesick, surrounded by war, and possibly enduring racism, no disrespect to the victims, but we could speculate that things simply got too much and he snapped.

If it was mine I would compile what research I could, including how the dog tag could have got to where it was found, and see if there are any descendants.

(Edited to remove information relating to another person of the same name)
Last edited by GeorgeMK on Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by shaggybfc » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:02 pm

I think the 2047th quartermaster truck company were stationed in Ashdown Park. Without giving away any permission detail, did you find the dogtag somewhere near here?

Edit - I didn't realise just how many Black US army / air corps units were based in the UK - 681

http://lestweforget.hamptonu.edu/page.c ... 0EFF8949A5
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by GeorgeMK » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:16 pm

shaggybfc wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:02 pm
I think the 2047th quartermaster truck company were stationed in Ashdown Park. Without giving away any permission detail, did you find the dogtag somewhere near here?
The dog tag could have been lost before being deployed to France (incident was at the Citadel, Langres, France), or lost whilst en-route back to the USA from the General Court Martial which had been held at APO 149 (located in Creil, France in 1945).

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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Bootneck45RM » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:43 pm

A great and very interesting find, that even after all these years has echoes for anyone who had relatives that went through that era. Those who were left at home suffered, often as much as those who were lost during or because of the war and 'the situations that it created'.
Clarences daughter and her mothers home is now an industrial park and the graveyard at Oak Park where Ruth Bell was buried has been neglected for years, and has only recently started to be cleared again by volunteers.
It's definitely a 'can of worms' but one, with sensitivity, may well be worth opening: memories on both sides of the Atlantic are active at the moment and it seems fate has given you a sly dig in the ribs to find out more.
Good luck with your search.
I know if I were a relative, I'd like to know.
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Re: My favourite find for a while. Help needed.

Post by Me and my boy » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:35 pm

shaggybfc wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:02 pm
I think the 2047th quartermaster truck company were stationed in Ashdown Park. Without giving away any permission detail, did you find the dogtag somewhere near here?

Edit - I didn't realise just how many Black US army / air corps units were based in the UK - 681

http://lestweforget.hamptonu.edu/page.c ... 0EFF8949A5
It was found in the ashford area of Kent
2019 hammies. = 133 (including quarters, halves and broken)
Saxon = 1( broken sceatta)
Celtic. = 1
Silver denarius = 6
Gold Roman = 0
Gold ring. = 0
Gold hammered .= 1😀

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