Lead thingy?

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jondurandsilver
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Lead thingy?

Post by jondurandsilver » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:20 am

I found this yday with the deus.
Any ideas of what it is?
And the silver looking ball as I've found a few of those over the last year or so.
Thanks for your help
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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by f8met » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:08 am

Round one is a pewter / tombac ball button. The other looks like a weight. What does it weigh?
Dave
Deus, 9" and 11" black coil
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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by jondurandsilver » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:16 am

Good shout. I hadn't thought of that.
I'm away til Monday so will weigh it then.

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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by fred » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:40 pm

The weight, or whatever it is, is extremely nice! ::g
Equinox 800 x2

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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by Ladybird66 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:12 pm

Similar one one Colchester site, 9th row down on the left. After the 1066 x 1485 line.
Described as a goldsmiths weight.

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co ... eights.htm

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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by Incognito » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:46 am

The below starts to explain the fleur de lys design:



From https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital BNJ/pdfs/1990_BNJ_60_7.pdf

(which you might have to copy paste to get to work)


A couple of months later the commission was repeated, with the additional instruction that they were to make five punches with the impression of a crown and five with the impression of a fleur-de-lis, and each weight was to be stamped with both devices.
Weights with the crown and fleur-de-lis marks are known for the noble, half-noble and quarter-noble . They are well-made and well-rounded, with the two marks enclosed in a border of one or more incised circles. The metal is a copper alloy. There is some variability in the details of the punchmarks and the circular border, but the crown is rendered in a very characteristic way. In particular, the four dots which represent the decoration on the upper rim of the crown are a constant feature. There is also a specimen in lead which, although rather light, bears the characteristic marks. These weights must be regarded as the earliest authenticated coin-weights of the English series. In 1423, following the accession of Henry VI, John Bernes was appointed to make the weights 'to the exclusion of all other persons'.

Later in the same year a new commission was granted; the summary from the Calendar of the Patent Rolls is worth giving in full.

"Appointment, by assent of the council, of John Bernes of London, 'goldsmyth', south of Trent, and Robert
Curteys of York, 'mercer' north of Trent, to make steelyards (stateras) and good and lawful weights of the
noble, half noble and farthing of gold with 'les rates' necessary thereto, and to mark them with a fleur de lys and
a crown, to be graven in the manner ordained in the Parliament held at Westminster in 9 Henry V. Any other
persons found making such steelyards or weights will be subject to a penalty ordained by the council, but the
said John and Robert are not to take more than 4d for each pair of steelyards, and 2d for each weight of the
noble, half noble and farthing of gold with 'les rates' necessary thereto."



Nice find ::g

Also if you are trying to date it or understand the lys design these articles have various info

https://www.theheraldrysociety.com/arti ... ur-de-lys/

(which at first glance places your lys as early) and

https://www.academia.edu/4645906/Yorksh ... ad_Weights

which offers another idea of how the lys ended up on weights.
Last edited by Incognito on Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by alloverover » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:13 pm


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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by jondurandsilver » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:09 am

Once again great research folks.
I think I can safely identify it as a gold bullion weight.
I'll weigh it in the next couple of days to see and it should be quite accurate due to the great condition.

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Re: Lead thingy?

Post by fred » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:27 am

jondurandsilver wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:09 am
Once again great research folks.
I think I can safely identify it as a gold bullion weight.
I'll weigh it in the next couple of days to see and it should be quite accurate due to the great condition.

The problem with the bullion weights is that they don't have to weigh any particular amount as long as the goldsmith knew what they meant. The silver ones are easier as, in my limited experience, they tend to be the weight in multiples of full (i.e. unclipped) shillings. :D

PS The PAS has some lead bullion weights listed as being Anglo Saxon but I found an identical one along with two Stuart Unite weights. One of them was in the same hole and the other just a foot or two away, and nothing earlier than Tudor has come off of the site. It makes you wonder! ::g
Equinox 800 x2

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