Good luck token. Date please?

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Magnas
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Good luck token. Date please?

Post by Magnas » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:02 am

I found this on Helensburgh foreshore yesterday. After fighting the extremely cokey ground conditions with my Garrett I switched on (and left on) the Iron Audio and managed a few hours following out the tide.

As it emerged from the clay I went through the usual - oh it's a penny, no wait... is it a hammered? Then I saw what I thought was latin? Could it be Roman? Then I read PATRONUS and thought it must be a Harry Potter souvenir. All wrong of course.

On the St George side the inscription is - S. GEORGIVS EQVITVM PATRONVS

And on the side with the sailing ship - IN TEMPESTATE SECVRITAS

I believe it is a talisman worn for good luck or safety, maybe by sailors(?) given the stormy seas on one side. I don't know anything about these and was hoping someone could maybe give me a more definite ID and an idea of its age. It was under 3 or 4 inches of clay.
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Tizabi
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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by Tizabi » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:20 am

SEAMAN'S CHARM
Obverse: St. George, mounted, slaying dragon
Around which:
St. GEORGIUS EQUITUM PATRONUS
(St. George Patron Saint of Knights)
Reverse:
A storm tossed ship containing a sleeping Christ and two frightened Apostles
Around which:
INTEMPESTATE SECURITAS
(Safety in the storm)

You can read all sorts of nonsense about these on eBay. Here's the true story:
The obverse comes from a coin called a Mansfeld thaler. First minted in 1521, it was commissioned by a Count von Mansfeld and honoured his family's patron saint. The von Mansfeld family trade was warfare and his symbol was adopted for luck by his mercenary troops.
Skipping forward a century or so and the thaler had been replaced by a charm or amulet bearing St George but now with the addition of Christ on the reverse.
This design is generally credited to a Hungarian engraver, Christian Hermann Roth and, with modifications, has been in continuous production ever since.


all i found on internet
Tizabi 98;

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liamnolan
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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by liamnolan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:22 am

Lovely find, thanks for sharing. I am pleased we already have a brilliant ID for you, thanks Tizabi, always a story to tell.
Good ID info and pics, well done on that, Liam :;@
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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by Magnas » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:37 am

Tizabi wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:20 am
...has been in continuous production ever since.
Wow, thanks for that. I'll try to see if I can narrow the date down any further if I can find any specifics on the modifications you mention.

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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by Ray » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:45 am

I love that. This sort of thing is so much more interesting than the average Ed 1 penny. Mind you I like to find those too! Well saved.
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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by amphora » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:36 pm

Wonderfull find. Great ::g

I found one myself en when looking for information then i found a lot what Tizabi said.
But i also found that they were excessively popular in the 17th century. Looking at material and way it is minted mine for sure looked from that century. You could look for yours as 17th century is most likely.
Good luck hunting.
Disclaimer: If i give advices i talk from my personal perspective, and it is not to copy 1 on 1. I rely on everyone’s common sense. Everyone has to think himself about implementing it for himself and to consider legal circumstances.

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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by detectorman5050 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:38 am

What a great beach find! I've found 1600's stuff on beach before, but they tend to, not surprisingly be worn away to nothing.
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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by Magnas » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:38 am

I’m not finding any useful date info but if anyone is interested in what it used to look like, I think mine is the same issue as this one that was sold for the princely sum of 15 euros.

https://www.antiques-delaval.com/en/co ... ritas.html

I’m not looking to sell anything so the price is irrelevant but it’s quite nice to see the detail that mine has lost during its time in the clay. As others have said above, the beach can be a harsh environment.

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Re: Good luck token. Date please?

Post by amphora » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:17 pm

Mitchiner describes this kind of tokens on, p. 642-644. They were minted between 1650 and 1800, but there are also later imitations.
https://www.atmikes.be/index.php/dienst ... -19de-eeuw

You have to look at the material and how they are stroked.
Is your metal and coin quality the same as coins dating 18th century, or more like 19/20th century coins?
The one i have found is clearly the quality of 18th century coins used in hour country at that time.
Good luck hunting.
Disclaimer: If i give advices i talk from my personal perspective, and it is not to copy 1 on 1. I rely on everyone’s common sense. Everyone has to think himself about implementing it for himself and to consider legal circumstances.

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