Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Please only post topics related to beach or water metal detecting here.
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:29 pm

I actually agree with everything that has been said by everybody on the subject of target IDs. If you want to use the numbers then it is easy to do so. Variable accuracy aside one of the reasons that I tend not to use it is that some signals are so obviously diggers that I have no reason to bother. Also on some sites where I always dig everything positive the only time that I need to even glance at the target ID is on iffy signals.

My detecting partner will not thank me for telling you but he tends only to dig very solid targets. He still finds about as much good stuff as I do but with less digging, however, there is a risk with this strategy. The ring below is a warning. It gave a strong iron signal with just some positive elements and he didn't dig it. A few minutes later I got exactly the same signal as he did and dug it. The gold is a thick band which was originally on an iron ring, now mostly rusted. We think that it was possibly to fit on the neck of a fancy Victorian or Edwardian perfume bottle or perhaps a walking cane or parasol. We never begrudge each other good finds (despite the language) but In retrospect I suspect that he would still rather have dug it himself! :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by littleboot » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:30 pm

WVAM wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:53 am
The debate of numbers vs tones is always somewhat amusing as both are just a means of communication. First between the machine and user and second, between users. The problem with tones are that they fail miserably on the second count. If all finds were described as "pasture, 7" down, Equinox with stock coil, and it went bing, bong, or ping, poing" then one persons bing is another persons bong. Heaven help us is one person calls it a bing and another a biiiing.

Both tones and numbers communicate to the user and the user uses their best sense(s) for interpretation. Nothing wrong with either or both as long as you get the most out of your machine ::g
But Chris....It doesn't matter if I hear a biing and you hear a bong. :)) Its me who is digging the signal so what anyone else hears it as is irrelevant. (That is why I never see the point of including numbers in descriptions of signals dug either...they are never going to mean anything conclusive out of that context. )
It can even come down the the fact that no two machines of the same model are exactly alike or respond in exactly the same way. We have two GMP's occasionally I would pick up the 'wrong' one. Hubby's and not mine. I can't see the tell-tale slight physical differences in the gloom of the shed. Anyway, I can tell this has happened as soon as I hit a signal. It sounds the same-ish but different.
I don't care what other people hear when put their coil over the same target with the Nox. My ears are a tad dodgy anyway. All that matters to me is that I learn what my ears are telling me. And though the explaining is a bit of an inexact science, the way I learn to interpret the sound is not.

I have a similar story to Fred's above. Not with the Nox or GMP...a few years ago now. Pete had a White's DFX and I had a Tesoro. Pete loves his numbers and ignored a signal and walked on. I was following him (we were walking to another permission) and had a tone-only machine. I went over the same target.. the sound was a bit mixed but erring on the better side of iffy. So I dug it. To Pete's chagrin it was a gold hammered. I have often checked Pete's rejects since then.
Last edited by littleboot on Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Bors » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:37 pm

Quote WVAM ,...." it went bing, bong, or ping, poing" then one persons bing is another persons bong. Heaven help us is one person calls it a bing and another a biiiing.

Remind me again of what detector your using. :D

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by WVAM » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:10 pm

Hiding under a tree as the rain has set in and waiting for a break in the clouds.
Jan, I didn’t say numbers are right, only that they are a means of communication.

I’ve done a lot of work in colours and you need to work on calibrated instruments using international protocols. It’s a well defined science. Detecting on the other hand depends on which way the wind is blowing! I have never seen a detector test that stand even reasonable scrutiny and the claims on manufacturers websites break many advertising regulations.
Folks will use numbers as they mean something to everybody and, by chance, most detectors give numbers. I will happily quote numbers on the T2. Over 40 and there’s a very good chance it’s coming out of the ground. That’s as far as it goes.

We’ll be watching the results of your shiny new toy for the first quoted number😀

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by WVAM » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:13 pm

Bors wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:37 pm
Quote WVAM ,...." it went bing, bong, or ping, poing" then one persons bing is another persons bong. Heaven help us is one person calls it a bing and another a biiiing.

Remind me again of what detector your using. :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Ladybird66 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:38 pm

Ah ! Now your talking my language. Numbers and sounds. I noticed quite a few times early on with my Nox I was getting Iron tones with very high numbers, up to 14. Worried me because I tended to ignore these tones but got to thinking, what if ?
That’s why I changed the tone break. I can now ignore the iron tone because it only goes to -9 then changes up.
The exception, of course, is if you get the iron tone AND a squeak. Then you need to investigate. So far I’ve only found small copper. I.e. catch plate made of iron with some copper parts. One of these times it will be something nice :D

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by WVAM » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:12 pm

littleboot wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:08 pm
u;@ u;@ u;@ u;@ What he said. :) I always dig low numbers (or sounds) because of gold on any machine I have because that is where gold tend to be. The sound is most important.
Jan, you dig numbers =)) - only teasing.

The difficulty is that machines give 2 bits of information - sounds and numbers. If I want to tell someone what the machine says then numbers are easier and more precise. That doesn't mean target precise but number precise. A 7 is always a 7. A ping is a variable depending on your ears and hard to describe.
I was out this afternoon on freshly rolled plough full of air. Some targets (I hate bloody buttons) gave a different number at 90 degrees for the same target. So target numbers are not precise but it gives me an easy way to tell folks the range of numbers. It's only about communicating at a distance; not about what your machine says to you.

I do agree with you but if I buy a Nox how would you tell me what I should know if you can't use numbers or describe sounds.

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:24 pm

WVAM wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:12 pm

I do agree with you but if I buy a Nox how would you tell me what I should know if you can't use numbers or describe sounds.

Some settings are are fixed or graduated so numbers are perfect for describing them. Other things just have to be described in words and you then have to put them into practice. Of course you may be able to get somebody with a Nox to show you what to do or even look on Youtube. Definitely not that difficult to sort out anyway! :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by littleboot » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:30 pm

This is the first machine I have had...apart from the Newforce which was beeping horrendous in every respect.....which has numbers or a visual display.
The answer is...you can't. You have to work it out yourself by digging and learning. No shortcuts.
Numbers simply can't be relied upon and are not transferable between machines or permissions. Just the way t is.
With sounds...well once you know what a signal on the better side or iffy is you are laughing. Just dig those and anything better. Plus dig the occasional more dodgy one for luck (nobody need know ;) ). That's it.
I get to know my permission and how my machine sounds to me. In my experience there is no way you can teach people what signal to dig by simply quoting some kind of formula. Its just a question of learning your machines lingo and once you do that it all clicks into place. Just like over here learning French...I could go about with a book or app to help me out. Easier in the short-term. But by far the best way is to simply get your ear in and learn the sounds and work it out. Another analogy is swimming....it may seem that having arm-bands can help you swim. Well no...they can help you kind of splash about without sinking at first. But actually they prevent you from swimming properly and end up in the way.
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:54 pm

littleboot wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:30 pm
This is the first machine I have had...apart from the Newforce which was beeping horrendous in every respect.....which has numbers or a visual display.
The answer is...you can't. You have to work it out yourself by digging and learning. No shortcuts.
Numbers simply can't be relied upon and are not transferable between machines or permissions. Just the way t is.
With sounds...well once you know what a signal on the better side or iffy is you are laughing. Just dig those and anything better. Plus dig the occasional more dodgy one for luck (nobody need know ;) ). That's it.
I get to know my permission and how my machine sounds to me. In my experience there is no way you can teach people what signal to dig by simply quoting some kind of formula. Its just a question of learning your machines lingo and once you do that it all clicks into place. Just like over here learning French...I could go about with a book or app to help me out. Easier in the short-term. But by far the best way is to simply get your ear in and learn the sounds and work it out. Another analogy is swimming....it may seem that having arm-bands can help you swim. Well no...they can help you kind of splash about without sinking at first. But actually they prevent you from swimming properly and end up in the way.

Actually wearing arm bands while speaking French might actually help! :-/

The point about the Nox is that it works pretty well out of the box but it gets a whole lot better if you put in the hours to learn it properly. ::g
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by littleboot » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:16 pm

fred wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:54 pm


Actually wearing arm bands while speaking French might actually help! :-/

(Tried it Fred and it didn't help. :)) The best way is to listen to French telly.)

The point about the Nox is that it works pretty well out of the box but it gets a whole lot better if you put in the hours to learn it properly. ::g
Well all machines are better after you do that. Takes a bit of patience, that's all. I will say the Nox is a whole lot easier 'out of the box' than the GMP was. A lot.
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:19 pm

littleboot wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:16 pm
fred wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:54 pm


Actually wearing arm bands while speaking French might actually help! :-/

(Tried it Fred and it didn't help. :)) The best way is to listen to French telly.)

The point about the Nox is that it works pretty well out of the box but it gets a whole lot better if you put in the hours to learn it properly. ::g
Well all machines are better after you do that. Takes a bit of patience, that's all. I will say the Nox is a whole lot easier 'out of the box' than the GMP was. A lot.

You would be amazed about how many people expect a new machine to be exactly like their old machine, but deeper and 'better', from day one. :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Easylife » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:46 pm

Are some saying that the Nox target number ID's are unreliable? 95% of the time I find that the target number in the ground is the same as when it comes out. ::g
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:04 pm

Easylife wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:46 pm
Are some saying that the Nox target number ID's are unreliable? 95% of the time I find that the target number in the ground is the same as when it comes out. ::g

I find the numbers pretty consistent but it does depend upon where the targets are. If you can lock on to them solidly they should be consistent. If they are towards the depth limits or something odd is happening, like being on edge or close to something else, then the signals drift away from the norm. The 'correct' reading returns once once it is out of the ground.

My first ever silver screamer was a nice quiet but consistent 24 signal, which on the beach is a large copper coin at 14 to 16 inches every time. however, as soon as it was out of the hole it was a screaming 30 odd and I knew before I located it that it that it was large silver. It was actually my first Nox florin. :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by cammann » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:42 am

Fred, I'm beginning to think that you are to the Equinox, what Luke Skywalker is to lightsabers..... Well done - a cracking haul.
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by nubsey » Mon May 13, 2019 7:21 pm

fred wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:40 pm
I had decided to go land detecting today, however, when I woke up showers were coming and going so I changed my mind. Instead I drove down the coast to try and find somewhere adjacent to a car park or a shelter that looked hopeful. About 15 miles later and after more than half a dozen beaches I realised that I was on a hiding to nothing as everywhere was sanded in. Just before the final beach I stopped for a snack and bumped into a friend who told me that my next destination had been heavily detected by a visitor over the past week. Fortunately the weather was improving so I went there anyway, parked up and went out onto the sand.


What does the expression sanded in mean?
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Mon May 13, 2019 8:31 pm

nubsey wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:21 pm

I had decided to go land detecting today, however, when I woke up showers were coming and going so I changed my mind. Instead I drove down the coast to try and find somewhere adjacent to a car park or a shelter that looked hopeful. About 15 miles later and after more than half a dozen beaches I realised that I was on a hiding to nothing as everywhere was sanded in. Just before the final beach I stopped for a snack and bumped into a friend who told me that my next destination had been heavily detected by a visitor over the past week. Fortunately the weather was improving so I went there anyway, parked up and went out onto the sand.


What does the expression sanded in mean?

Covered in loose sand i.e. almost everything is deeply buried. As opposed to cut out when sand is washed away to (hopefully) reveal the goodies. :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by nubsey » Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 pm

Are well as I don't know what the beach even looks like yet, I won't know either way.
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Bors » Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 am

nubsey wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Are well as I don't know what the beach even looks like yet, I won't know either way.
I`ll give you a couple of Clue`s , It`s a mainly yellowish colour which has very fine gritty type stuff all over and has people either walking or lying on it usually with very little clothes on . Or even,it can be pebbly too and often has water nearby where the people find great pleasure in swimming or frolicking about in it. If you see that! you know there`s a good chance its a beach. =)) =))

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Bors » Tue May 14, 2019 8:28 am

Well ,It seems for all this talk about The ID numbers on the Nox being Iffy or in-accurate even, are totally rejected by Gordon Heritage who actually praises the ID number system as one of the Equinox`s BEST features, and I would find it a very brave man /woman to argue the toss against him on it with his experience with Minelabs. x;
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Tue May 14, 2019 10:24 am

Bors wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 am
nubsey wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Are well as I don't know what the beach even looks like yet, I won't know either way.
I`ll give you a couple of Clue`s , It`s a mainly yellowish colour which has very fine gritty type stuff all over and has people either walking or lying on it usually with very little clothes on . Or even,it can be pebbly too and often has water nearby where the people find great pleasure in swimming or frolicking about in it. If you see that! you know there`s a good chance its a beach. =)) =))
The beach, not a beach! :D Nigel's going to a specific beach and we were discussing across a couple of threads what to look for. ::g
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Tue May 14, 2019 10:29 am

Bors wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:28 am
Well ,It seems for all this talk about The ID numbers on the Nox being Iffy or in-accurate even, are totally rejected by Gordon Heritage who actually praises the ID number system as one of the Equinox`s BEST features, and I would find it a very brave man /woman to argue the toss against him on it with his experience with Minelabs. x;

It seems to me that what he is talking about is the ability to separate out and lock on to a target at depth, rather than the ability to tell what a target actually is. If that is the case then I completely agree with him. :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Bors » Tue May 14, 2019 11:00 am

fred wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:24 am
Bors wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 am
nubsey wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Are well as I don't know what the beach even looks like yet, I won't know either way.
I`ll give you a couple of Clue`s , It`s a mainly yellowish colour which has very fine gritty type stuff all over and has people either walking or lying on it usually with very little clothes on . Or even,it can be pebbly too and often has water nearby where the people find great pleasure in swimming or frolicking about in it. If you see that! you know there`s a good chance its a beach. =)) =))
The beach, not a beach! :D Nigel's going to a specific beach and we were discussing across a couple of threads what to look for. ::g
Just Teasing. :D

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Bors » Tue May 14, 2019 11:15 am

fred wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:29 am
Bors wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:28 am
Well ,It seems for all this talk about The ID numbers on the Nox being Iffy or in-accurate even, are totally rejected by Gordon Heritage who actually praises the ID number system as one of the Equinox`s BEST features, and I would find it a very brave man /woman to argue the toss against him on it with his experience with Minelabs. x;

It seems to me that what he is talking about is the ability to separate out and lock on to a target at depth, rather than the ability to tell what a target actually is. If that is the case then I completely agree with him. :D
It`s quite possible Fred, but from what I can understand in any of his references on the nox , unless I`ve missed it, he`s not given any negativity on the numbers in past references, and also in that phrase I quoted he`s not criticized the ID numbers in as far as accuracy is concerned in that . The phrase went, ..." I`ve never seen a detector give such accurate TDI`s at depth ", which in itself appears, the way it comes across to me anyway is referring to the digital Numbers, but I`d stand corrected. But I suppose only he knows the way he`s putting it and we can only guess as to which it is.
Hopefully, someone could ask him and get clarification maybe and that would put it to bed?
I have to point out, I don`t have any issue with the ID numbers, but saying that I don`t solely rely on them. I look at them as a helpful guide, but, I also take notice what the sound comes across as and then make my decision on what both information tells me.
I also acknowledge that there are those that have criticized their accuracy.

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by nubsey » Tue May 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Bors wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 am
nubsey wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 pm
Are well as I don't know what the beach even looks like yet, I won't know either way.
I`ll give you a couple of Clue`s , It`s a mainly yellowish colour which has very fine gritty type stuff all over and has people either walking or lying on it usually with very little clothes on . Or even,it can be pebbly too and often has water nearby where the people find great pleasure in swimming or frolicking about in it. If you see that! you know there`s a good chance its a beach. =)) =))


Thanks for the clue Bors. But I am afraid you have now left me totally confused. Just what is this mainly yellow colour, that has a very fine gritty stuff spread all over it? Do the people walk and lie on the gritty stuff, or the mainly yellow colour? Also what is the even that can be pebbly too? I do understand the water stuff, because we have a swimming pool nearby, but there is nothing in there that is mainly yellow. I does have a life belt which is mainly orange, is that any good.

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Bors » Tue May 14, 2019 6:38 pm

u;@ =))

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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by fred » Tue May 14, 2019 6:53 pm

Oddly enough somebody jusy contacted me about getting rid of his Nox. Apparently he misses the accuracy of his other machine's TID telling him whether to dig or not, even though he knows that it isn't that accurate and the Nox goes deeper and finds things that his other detector misses. Each to their own I suppose.

I wait with bated breath to see what aspect of TID Gordon was actually referring to. I love the Nox but could never describe the numbers as accurate, not insomuch as any given number means that you will probably dig a specific target anyway. There are far too many possible targets and far too few numbers available. :D
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Lowland » Tue May 14, 2019 7:09 pm

Just read all this thread...I need a stiff drink.
Seriously though was a great read,very interesting ::g
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Re: Reasonable trip to a 'worked out' beach. Nox users might want to read about low numbers and gold!

Post by Bors » Tue May 14, 2019 7:19 pm

fred wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:53 pm
Oddly enough somebody jusy contacted me about getting rid of his Nox. Apparently he misses the accuracy of his other machine's TID telling him whether to dig or not, even though he knows that it isn't that accurate and the Nox goes deeper and finds things that his other detector misses. Each to their own I suppose.

I wait with bated breath to see what aspect of TID Gordon was actually referring to. :D

Wow !! x; That actually amazes me when you start DEPENDING on only the numbers to make the dig decision. I mean everyone has their own preferences I know, but relying mainly on the Numbers is in my reckoning a bit risky really I should imagine, as the detector users with no screen would agree hopefully that the sound is first then the number readout is placed second in order of accuracy. But again I suppose, I must bow to the preference of other detectorists in their preference.
I did find personally the digital readout on the ID numbers Fisher F75 pretty good but I wouldn`t have made a decision to dig based just on the digital readout.
Up to now, I`m happy with the Digital ID read out and the Sound on the Nox, and I think that`s because I don`t rely solely on either. Both to me play their part.

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