Permission provisos

Please post all topics here related to the research and gaining finding permission to metal detect.
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Elbasstardo
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Permission provisos

Post by Elbasstardo » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:49 pm

Hey guys

I've been doing the rounds of finding new permissions as all my current ones are a bit of a drive away and living surrounded by fields I thought a few locally would enable an hour or two after tea on a nice evening (wife dependent...)

Anyway, I fired off a bundle of emails and got some resounding no's including one who said "there's nothing to find I don't want you to be disappointed"! To which I replied its not all about the finding, received a one word answer "No!"

There is one farm I'm particularly interested in being the site of a medieval village complete with demolished Hall so I decided to put the extra effort in and pay the owner a visit.

Initially I thought it sounded promising, it was a yes and he's obviously dealt with detectorists in the past but then he started laying down the rules and I'm really not sure if they're reasonable or not

1. He has to be there
2. Anything silver or above stays on the farm
3. Anything he deems as interesting stays on the farm
4. Certain fields are "his" and absolutely no go (I asked what he meant and he just laughed)

He then produced a jumbled box of finds from the farm including 50+ hammered silvers a hammered gold, a gold stater and various bits of jewellery

So it's obviously worth doing and I can totally understand him keeping finds but is this kind of agreement usual? What agreements do you guys work with? I'm new to this, my permissions so far have been just come and go as you please and not even a mention of finds which I guess is really lucky!


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dig-dog
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by dig-dog » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:57 pm

Personally, I wouldn’t bother.
If he’s got to be there, there won’t be much detecting time knowing how busy most farmers are.

I think I’d try the one who said there’s nothing there.

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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Ladybird66 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:11 pm

Unless I’m wrong he could be prosecuted if he hasn’t declared that lot and you can bet your life ‘his fields’ are where they came from.

His conditions are unusual and certainly wouldn’t suit me, or most peeps I know. Try somewhere else. ::g

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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Pete E » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:18 pm

I wouldn't bother with that particular farm either some people are just too awkward to deal with....

I would also not bother with emails or letters, but just drive around and speak to people face to face and play the "local" card etc ....

Don't be afraid to target small fields and paddocks as once you get a permission you have also made a contact that can lead to introductions and further permissions......
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Tetra73 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:33 pm

So he wants you to clear his land of scrap and for him to basically keep anything over the value of 20p don't bother you will just be waisting your time and effort

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Re: Permission provisos

Post by kenleyboy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:36 pm

As desperate as I was when on my permission hunting a few years ago I had one response that wanted payment and to keep all the finds .I was really tempted but reluctantly I walked away .I know that you are not being asked to pay but to hand over all the finds seems a little unfair to me and the fact he has to be there . You may just as well offer to give him a piggy back while your there .
Would not entertain it .
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Elbasstardo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 am

Thanks for the replies people

It did all seem a bit strange with all his rules and regulations but I did wonder if that was the norm (was hoping not!)

Im not going to pursue it any further, as much as I would like to detect his land my gut instinct was "leave well alone" and I'm going to trust that backed up by your replies.

I'd be interested what arrangements you have with land owners, 50/50 splits? Everything offered?

I've done one permission with 100% hand over (they even wanted all the scrap!) but that was for a local village historical society who are collecting for a display of village history. Even that agreement allowed some wiggle room to keep finds if they were properly recorded and they were given photographs. There were some bits I'd have liked to have kept but I handed them all over. I didn't mind that at all as it still felt worthwhile and I felt I was doing my bit and recognised as doing so.
But having finds kept seemingly for personal greed stored in a jumbled box just isn't right in my mind

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Re: Permission provisos

Post by dig-dog » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:42 am

Most farmers I deal with like to see anything good but don’t seem to be interested in wafer thin silver coins! Most are pleased to see you’ve enjoyed yourself and are happy for you to keep your finds. Unless it’s gold! Everyone wants the gold. However there are different attitudes on different farms. If you are their local handyman who repairs broken equipment for free, then they let you keep your finds, but if you find something significant it’s got to be a split. These are just my experiences.
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by GeorgeMK » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:12 am

Elbasstardo wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:49 pm
4. Certain fields are "his" and absolutely no go (I asked what he meant and he just laughed)
Maybe he has his own metal detector and detects on his own land.

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Re: Permission provisos

Post by lonecoiler » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:31 am

You could drop yourself in it big time if you found a hoard or an artefact of great historical interest. ;;z
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Tetra73 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:45 am

Elbasstardo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 am


I'd be interested what arrangements you have with land owners, 50/50 splits? Everything offered?

One land owner that I have permission on just said if I find anything really valuable they would like a share of it if sold, I have nothing in writing with them partly because they are also my landlords for the bungalow that I live in and I look after the farm animals if they go away for a few days the other permission just said carry on be suprised if you find anything but with both landowners they are very strait and are not the sort of people who would grab anything they could, they are the sort that would give you their last £1 if they felt you needed it more than they did so I treat them with the same resect one of them never asks if I have found anything the other just says that my pile of scrap will soon be worth taking to the scap yard when I offered them half of that when I do they said no it's yours you dug it up but I guess I am very lucky

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Re: Permission provisos

Post by shaggybfc » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:17 am

With my permissions, I have a 50/50 written agreement in place for anything worthy. It also details what the treasure act is and what they can expect if a treasure item is discovered. I'm very open and honest with the land owner - they get to see everything found.

If this was me, I'd be walking away from this particular landowner. It just doesn't sit right somehow. Having this box full of loot,- he is either a detectorist and found the coins / jewllery himself - if so, you'd have to question whether he understood the reporting laws and how to store finds. Or, he had a detectorist on his land previously and kept these items. I don't think he'd have found all those by simply working / walking the land - it's not that easy, unless they were a hoard.
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by roamingrob » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:50 am

I have searched over 50 locations and never had this. My agreement is anything under the value of £100 they keep. Anything over that and it's a 50/50 split. Of course anything that falls as treasure is reported and 98% sign an agreement from which states all of that (NCMD form)
My advice walk away ...good luck ::g
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Easylife » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:17 pm

GeorgeMK wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:12 am
Elbasstardo wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:49 pm
4. Certain fields are "his" and absolutely no go (I asked what he meant and he just laughed)
Maybe he has his own metal detector and detects on his own land.
That's what I thought also. x;
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Bors » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:24 pm

Yeah I think some Farmers conjure up so amazing things rather than just plainly say No.
If he`d have given me the conditions he gave you, I`d have laughed and said ,
"I bid you good day Sir" and kicked the nearest chicken showing my contempt as I departed off his property. B|

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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Easylife » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:00 pm

It sounds like the greedy farmer may be detecting the land himself possibly even on a scheduled DMV. It seems that he is only offering you the fields that he has already searched and wants to be there just in case you find anything good that he missed. It all sounds quite suspect to me and I would just walk away from it. Is it a scheduled DMV that is protected?

I have no written contracts with any of my landowners, but would be quite happy if they wanted one. I can come and go anytime without notifying them as they all trust me. I often stress to my landowners that they should keep some of the finds but they all see it as I have put in the work to make the finds that I should keep them. I show them all interesting finds regardless of value but if they express a particular interest in any then I suggest that they keep it, so far I have only given away some crotal bells as that's all they wanted, regardless of me finding gold, silver and other items worth up to hundreds of pounds. They have implied that they would only be interested in a split of anything if I found say a hoard worth lots? I guess I am quite lucky there in contrast to the greedy ones that want everything? :D
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by oldartefact » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:04 pm

Good move to kick this one into touch ... but its left me wondering .. what exactly is intend by his first stipulation "he has to be there"? does the farmer intend to follow you round the field, looking over your shoulder as you dig? Thats a tadge extreme by any standards.
I prefer permissions where everything is done on a trust basis, though happy to go with the standard NCMD agreement form also.
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Elbasstardo » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:08 am

oldartefact wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:04 pm
Good move to kick this one into touch ... but its left me wondering .. what exactly is intend by his first stipulation "he has to be there"? does the farmer intend to follow you round the field, looking over your shoulder as you dig? Thats a tadge extreme by any standards.
I prefer permissions where everything is done on a trust basis, though happy to go with the standard NCMD agreement form also.
His reasoning was "its all too easy to slip a small silver into your back pocket and forget its there" obviously has some trust issues!

It's all suspect in my mind and like I said I'm steering a wide berth.

Thanks for letting me know some of your agreements they're definitely more in line with what I was thinking was normal! I think I'll adapt the ncmd one for my uses if needed.
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Wuntbedruv » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:01 pm

Elbasstardo wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:49 pm

1. He has to be there
2. Anything silver or above stays on the farm
3. Anything he deems as interesting stays on the farm
4. Certain fields are "his" and absolutely no go (I asked what he meant and he just laughed)

He then produced a jumbled box of finds from the farm including 50+ hammered silvers a hammered gold, a gold stater and various bits of jewellery
Avoid, he obviously thinks that his personal perogatives go above things like the TA and that could put you in an awkward position.
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Re: Permission provisos

Post by Roughwood » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Steer clear of this bloke!
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