3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

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cammann
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3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by cammann » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Feeling pretty gutted after both of my permissions have informed me they are leasing their land out to other farmers for the next 3 years - meaning I've lost slightly over 3000 acres.

Has anyone else lost lance of late due to the original landowner leasing out their land? It could be a coincidence but to have them both saying it was being leased out for the same period seems quite a coincidence so I'm curious whether there's some driving force (e.g. crop prices) behind this as both are crop farmers with no livestock.


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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by Oxgirl36 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:34 pm

There’s always the chance that the people leasing it will let you continue? Worth asking ::g

P.S. and meant to say sorry for the position you’re in :((
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by littlehove » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:04 pm

I agree with oxgirl. It has to be worth asking the people who lease the land. When you tell them that the owner had given you permission there's every chance that the lessee will too.

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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by jcmaloney » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:28 pm

The leases can be complex affairs where the lease holder has total control over the arable cycle, crop to crop and the landowner gets the stewardship/subs payment and/or a % of the yields.

Nothing to be lost by asking. ::g
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by oldartefact » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:55 pm

I know that uncertainty about the future outlook for farming has created some nervousness in the rural community, one of the knock on effects maybe that some landowners look to reduce uncertainty by leasing out their land, and let others take the risk.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by stanslad » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:13 am

Sorry to hear that, but a word with new farmers could work in your favour as you were already doing the land,
perhaps if they say yes carry on, they could also have other land they farm already you could get on as well & gain another permission,
Good luck.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by Ladybird66 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:27 am

I had the same thing happen to me a few years ago. Not 3000 acres but just as important to me.
That was also a 3 year lease agreement and as far as the owner was concerned he no longer had any say over who went on that land.
I asked if I could contact the new renter and was advised against it. Owner said he was an awkward sort of fella and he didn’t want me upsetting him. I just moved on, found another permission. He was a pain in the neck anyway !

Looks like you’ll have to put it on the back burner till 2022. Give you something to look forward to :D

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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by Easylife » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:43 am

Just wondering, is this a case of having all of your eggs in the same basket? x;
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by cammann » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:19 am

Easylife wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:43 am
Just wondering, is this a case of having all of your eggs in the same basket? x;
Lol, you mean 2 baskets separated by size, location and organisational type?
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by cammann » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:22 am

Thanks all. I'll be contacting the new lessee of one of the permissions (I dont yet know who's got the smaller one) and who knows where that'll lead. If they're large enough to swallow 3000 acres I may end up with 6000 if I get a positive response! Either way, the worst they can say is no so it doesn't hurt anyone to ask.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by SuperRed » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:23 am

Easylife wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:43 am
Just wondering, is this a case of having all of your eggs in the same basket? x;
Good point and very relevant to another thread. ::g
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by shaggybfc » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:59 am

Sorry to hear of your situation. It is certainly worth the ask, is it not?
I’m going to be losing a bit of land. The land owner, previous farmer, who leases out the land to another farmer, but all goodie me to detect from both parties. The new farmer has just informed me that he’d be taking some government money under the stewardship scheme, therefore a few fields will be out of bounds as from October. I’m not too concerned, they were pretty quiet anyway and it’s only a small % of the land I have access to. I’d rather lose access due to wild flower growing, than to these FB pay to dig groups.
Good luck.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by andy1973 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:01 am

I would ask, seeing u already have the land owners permission that should go in your favour :) good luck and let us know how you get on
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by cammann » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:50 am

I'll report back and let you know the result when I hear back from the new tenant.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by Albus » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:43 pm

Most of my best permission was rendered virtually useless after I arrived one Saturday morning and found the main field totally occupied with caravans tens etc and a HUGE amount of detectorists wandering around. I would suspect at least 150. I dont blame the farmer he needed the money but the organiser could have at least had the decency to ask or tell me.
Thats the way detecting's going now. Paid sites.

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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by cammann » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:14 pm

Albus wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:43 pm
Most of my best permission was rendered virtually useless after I arrived one Saturday morning and found the main field totally occupied with caravans tens etc and a HUGE amount of detectorists wandering around. I would suspect at least 150. I dont blame the farmer he needed the money but the organiser could have at least had the decency to ask or tell me.
Thats the way detecting's going now. Paid sites.
Sorry to hear that Albus - that must be pretty gutting.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by oldartefact » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:26 pm

Albus wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:43 pm
Most of my best permission was rendered virtually useless after I arrived one Saturday morning and found the main field totally occupied with caravans tens etc and a HUGE amount of detectorists wandering around. I would suspect at least 150. I dont blame the farmer he needed the money but the organiser could have at least had the decency to ask or tell me.
Thats the way detecting's going now. Paid sites.
I would like to stress that I truly feel very very sorry for your predicament.. I wouldnt like it if it happened to me. That said the contract to detect or not, is entirely between the landowner and the rally organiser, sadly consideration of other detectorists already on the land is completely out of the equation. That said if you had an agreement with the landowner, that you should be consulted prior to organised events, you may have a case. I'm afraid that organised events coming onto our permissions, is something we have to take on the chin. Its a bitter pill to swallow for those of us being displaced, but that is just how it is.
edit ... I would add that obtaining a permission does not oblige the landowner to then act in one's favour, and neither does it oblige any other party (rally organiser, or otherwise) to act in one's favour. The "one man only permission", is a bit of a myth, tbh I am not sure how the idea of "one person, one permission" originated. Maybe there is someone out there who can explain. Hopefully in more words than "that is how we did it in the 70's"
edit edit ... On the plus side if an organised event hit one of "my fields" I would be gutted, but at the same time glowing in the knowledge that I got there first ... :) :) :)
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by Pete E » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:19 am

Albus wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:43 pm
Most of my best permission was rendered virtually useless after I arrived one Saturday morning and found the main field totally occupied with caravans tens etc and a HUGE amount of detectorists wandering around. I would suspect at least 150. I dont blame the farmer he needed the money but the organiser could have at least had the decency to ask or tell me.
Thats the way detecting's going now. Paid sites.
Very sorry to hear that...Its instances like this why I don't mind targeting smaller areas to ask for permission. I would rather have 10 small parcels of land with different owners than just one large farm...
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by littleboot » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:06 pm

Albus wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:43 pm
Most of my best permission was rendered virtually useless after I arrived one Saturday morning and found the main field totally occupied with caravans tens etc and a HUGE amount of detectorists wandering around. I would suspect at least 150. I dont blame the farmer he needed the money but the organiser could have at least had the decency to ask or tell me.
Thats the way detecting's going now. Paid sites.
It is very unfortunate and I hope you find another site soon. I hope you got some good stuff of it before they had their rally.
Having said that, why should the organisers tell you? Its a contract between the landowner and them. You just happen to have been the happy beneficiary of some free detecting for however long it was.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by littlehove » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:17 pm

Albus wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:43 pm
Most of my best permission was rendered virtually useless after I arrived one Saturday morning and found the main field totally occupied with caravans tens etc and a HUGE amount of detectorists wandering around. I would suspect at least 150. I dont blame the farmer he needed the money but the organiser could have at least had the decency to ask or tell me.
Thats the way detecting's going now. Paid sites.
I too would have been totally gutted if this happened to me and I'm sorry but the fact that I had had the opportunity to detect on it previously would not have made me feel any better about it.

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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by littleboot » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:52 pm

Well in my view the most positive and practical way to look at it is to be thankful for what you had and move on and concentrate on moving forward with other permissions.
I've 'lost' countless acres to Greenwaste and there is little point in being upset about it. It is what it is. The farmer has a living to make and I am thankful for any time I have spent on his land pootling around with my hobby.
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by littlehove » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:48 pm

Everyone has their own take on it. As someone once said it takes all sorts to make a world. 🙂

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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by littleboot » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:56 pm

indeed I did. And no-one is suggesting that your take is any more or less valid than mine. B-)
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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by Keef the Frog » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:38 am

All part of life's rich tapestry :))
Great free fishing lost to syndicates, bottle dumps lost to new roads, fossiling sites buried in sand etc...…..

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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by kenleyboy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:30 am

Keef the Frog wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:38 am
All part of life's rich tapestry :))
Great free fishing lost to syndicates, bottle dumps lost to new roads, fossiling sites buried in sand etc...…..
Too true , just lost "our" largest and most productive bottle dump to planners . We barely scratched the surface but it is what it is !
I walk , I dig , I find ....naff all !

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Re: 3000 acres lost in 2 weeks.

Post by Keef the Frog » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:45 am

kenleyboy wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:30 am
Keef the Frog wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:38 am
All part of life's rich tapestry :))
Great free fishing lost to syndicates, bottle dumps lost to new roads, fossiling sites buried in sand etc...…..
Too true , just lost "our" largest and most productive bottle dump to planners . We barely scratched the surface but it is what it is !
Ours was a killer dump right in the middle of Bury St. Edmunds. It also had been barely touched even though one afternoon we had 70ish Codds out =)) . It's now all under Parkway.

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